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Vintage Television and Video Vintage television and video equipment, programmes, VCRs etc. |
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5th Dec 2022, 7:30 am | #1 |
Pentode
Join Date: May 2022
Location: Odiham, Hampshire, UK.
Posts: 125
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PALplus (without spending a fortune!)
Hi
I recently picked up an actual widescreen Philips PM5644 - the PALplus version but I've been stymied by a complete lack of PALplus support in any TV equipment I can presently get my hands on. Anyone know any inexpensive ways around this? I see there is a very expensive standalone decoder for sale on eBay but I was thinking for example were there VCRs or other standalone terrestrial receivers that are able to decode PALplus? |
5th Dec 2022, 11:02 am | #2 |
Pentode
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Stourbridge, West Midlands, UK.
Posts: 115
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Re: PALplus (without spending a fortune!)
I think you will struggle in the Uk, because to my knowledge it was never implemented as a standard here. But I am sure the BBC dabbled, I think Channel 4 might have done too. I only remember seeing it on Philips sets but it may have been included on certain European manufacturers sets as well. It was a way of providing a better widescreen picture for terrestrial and satellite. But then came along DVB-T and DVB-S and rendered it obsolete.
I think it may have been implemented more widely on the continent especially Germany. You can search Europe on the ‘bay… I notice the unit mentions zwei kanalton, the German stereo terrestrial transmission system. We used NICAM… |
5th Dec 2022, 11:21 am | #3 |
Nonode
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Warsaw, Poland and Cambridge, UK
Posts: 2,677
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Re: PALplus (without spending a fortune!)
My family had a monster Sony KV-32FD1 CRT television which supported PAL plus. There may be other Sony models around 1999 which support it. I think there were some Channel 4 broadcasts in PAL plus, and I remember it working, but this all dates back about 20 years.
Chris
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5th Dec 2022, 12:00 pm | #4 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Croydon, Surrey, UK.
Posts: 7,571
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Re: PALplus (without spending a fortune!)
Channel 4 were the main users. I remember recording 2001 Space Odyssey when it was shown on C4 and when I played it back, the TV switched to widescreen (rather than me selecting widescreen) which I thought was pretty clever at the time (which was around 1998-99)
It looks like that Philips generator was designed for the continent. As stated above, we only used NICAM for stereo sound.
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5th Dec 2022, 12:26 pm | #5 |
Moderator
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Re: PALplus (without spending a fortune!)
The UK was an early adopter of DTTV (1998) so broadcasters had little incentive to adopt PALplus. Widescreen analogue TVs were thin on the ground here in the 90s too. I remember being surprised to see retailers' windows showing lots of WS TVs in Spain in the mid 90s.
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5th Dec 2022, 12:36 pm | #6 |
Pentode
Join Date: May 2022
Location: Odiham, Hampshire, UK.
Posts: 125
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Re: PALplus (without spending a fortune!)
The PM5588 wasn't really related to this post - it's just what it's stacked on. But briefly, it may not have been used here but that doesn't mean it's not a fun thing to play with. My TV may not support PALplus but it does support A2 stereo. I lived in Australia for 5 years during the analogue 'telly era, was interested to bring some obsolete tech back to life...
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5th Dec 2022, 1:11 pm | #7 |
Pentode
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Stourbridge, West Midlands, UK.
Posts: 115
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Re: PALplus (without spending a fortune!)
I am sure others will know but wasn’t PalPlus more than just widescreen signalling? Weren't there image enhancements too?
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5th Dec 2022, 2:13 pm | #8 |
Heptode
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: High Wycombe, Bucks. UK.
Posts: 811
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Re: PALplus (without spending a fortune!)
When a widescreen programme was shown on traditional analogue TV, it usually had black bars at the top and bottom of the picture. PALplus added extra detail to the picture, invisibly hidden in the black bars. The PALplus decoder reconstructed a true widescreen image with enhanced detail. Normal TVs simply ignored the extra detail, just like black and white TVs ignored the colour information.
Channel 4 in the UK transmitted some films in PALplus but it wasn't widely adopted over here. There were standalone decoders and large widescreen CRT TVs on sale with integrated PALplus decoders. Unfortunately I can't remember specific model numbers. Certainly Philips and Sony offered them. If you could find such a TV, it would be very cheap as widescreen CRT TVs went out of fashion years ago, and are not yet valuable. The problem is that most of them have already gone straight to the dump. At the other extreme, there are a few people who think an obsolete PALplus decoder must be worth a small fortune because it's rare. There's no middle ground. I think you'll have to ask around and keep waiting until something turns up. |
5th Dec 2022, 2:30 pm | #9 |
Pentode
Join Date: May 2022
Location: Odiham, Hampshire, UK.
Posts: 125
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Re: PALplus (without spending a fortune!)
It sounds rather complicated because not only does the receiver have to make up vertical resolution, but it's also got to interleave detail into the visible lines too.
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5th Dec 2022, 10:24 pm | #10 | |
Dekatron
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Haarlem, Netherlands
Posts: 4,199
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Re: PALplus (without spending a fortune!)
Quote:
Besides Philips and Sony, I remember seeing Finlux PAL+ sets as well, and it's very likely Loewe and B&O also carried them. I don't really remember any S-VHS recorder with PAL+ but Philips might have had one or two, not sure though. EDIT: JVC introduced the HR-S9200 in 1995. Last edited by Maarten; 5th Dec 2022 at 10:32 pm. |
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6th Dec 2022, 2:24 pm | #11 |
Triode
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Madrid, Spain.
Posts: 28
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Re: PALplus (without spending a fortune!)
Yes, even Samsung (back then not in the higher end of the market, remember) got in the PALplus game — with a S-VHS VCR (the SV-260X from 1996), a few compatible TV sets (e.g. WS-2820PP, WS-3220PP) and a handful of partially-enabled VHS decks (capable of recording widescreen transmissions ᴀɴᴅ signallling them accordingly at playback, albeit without the extra detail circuitry). By 1999, only the latter (VHS with "16:9 Function") remained in their catalogue.
Last edited by Tester.; 6th Dec 2022 at 2:50 pm. |
8th Dec 2022, 10:45 am | #12 |
Octode
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Co. Durham, UK.
Posts: 1,117
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Re: PALplus (without spending a fortune!)
" PALplus added extra detail to the picture, invisibly hidden in the black bars...."
That reminds me of the compatible 405/810 dual-definition system I worked out on a school exchange to Lille, age 15. I was later told, by someone I hadn't shown it to, that it 'wouldn't work'. |
8th Dec 2022, 8:39 pm | #13 |
Heptode
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Luton, Bedfordshire, UK.
Posts: 891
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Re: PALplus (without spending a fortune!)
Yes the Sony DHR-1000 DV Cam/ MiniDV Editing Recorder sported PALPlus. Nice machines!
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8th Dec 2022, 9:41 pm | #14 | |
Pentode
Join Date: May 2022
Location: Odiham, Hampshire, UK.
Posts: 125
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Re: PALplus (without spending a fortune!)
Quote:
Seriously at this rate I'm going to call up Hugh Grant, see if he'll put it under his arm and start knocking on doors. Surely someone in this town has a PALplus TV. |
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