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Old 28th Dec 2019, 10:09 pm   #1
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Default Amstrad/Funai Transport Questions

Hello all,

Firstly apologies if I sound a bit thick with all of this, this isn't my usual 'wheelhouse' and this machine is older than I am so these really aren't something I've ever had to turn my hand to.

I'm working on a video retrospective of a Amstrad 'Double Decker' (DD8900) combined double cassette deck, I have one here in need or urgent restoration but I'm having issues with it.

The transport by research looks like it's very common for the time shared with several similar low-price machines, possibly the Amstrad 4600 too.

Attachment 196004
Attachment 196005
Attachment 196006

Firstly, having replaced the belts with the generic ones I found which seem to work best, are they roughly in the correct place?

When I try and refit the transport the capstan spins but the tape loading mechanism does little, and there's a loud 'squeal' from the drive side of the transport, I imagine that the belts simply rub against each other to and transmit torque by friction to the the loading mechanism, is that correct or am I missing something? This assumes I have the belts in the correct place.

I've used generic Chinese belts, does anybody have a reasonably priced (ideally two) set of belts for this machine.

Any other pointers welcome!

Thanks in advance,
RR
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Old 28th Dec 2019, 10:27 pm   #2
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Default Re: Amstrad/Funai Transport Questions

Hello and welcome,
Your attachments appear to be invalid, please re-post.
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Old 29th Dec 2019, 2:54 am   #3
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Default Re: Amstrad/Funai Transport Questions

Ah apologies I'm mobile at the moment I'll reupload when I'm home.
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Old 29th Dec 2019, 1:55 pm   #4
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Default Re: Amstrad/Funai Transport Questions

The Amstrad VCR 4600 uses a completely different deck (an earlier Funai mech).

The equivalent basic machines which use this deck are the Amstrad VCR 6000 and the 6100 uses the same belts as did the Hinari VXL8 and 9, there were other machines of different brands such as Goodmans and Sentra as well as quite a few others but I cannot recall models for these machines off the top of my head.
I have listed the more common machines that used the same/similar basic decks that use the same belts though.
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Old 29th Dec 2019, 2:08 pm   #5
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Default Re: Amstrad/Funai Transport Questions

That's a great help Red to Black, thanks for taking time to reply.

That aids the research.

Anybody with any input on how I've fitted the belts and the squealing issue?

Cheers,
RR
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Old 29th Dec 2019, 2:38 pm   #6
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Default Re: Amstrad/Funai Transport Questions

The belts look to be fitted ok as far as I can see from the photos, obviously I haven't got the mech in front of me.

It could be that they are the wrong thickness, at least the one/s involved with the friction drive part of the front loading bit underneath the deck.
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Old 29th Dec 2019, 2:44 pm   #7
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Default Re: Amstrad/Funai Transport Questions

These belts are especially thin, I suspect that's the issue. I've located the belts but with a 30€ minimum order and the belt kits costing about 2€ it's a bit of a pickle! I can't seem to find kits of thicker rubber belts anywhere - ho hum!

As long as it is meant to drive by friction and I'm not totally misunderstanding.

The display doesn't work either (not looked if its LCD or VFD) but that stuff weirdly I'm happier at diagnosing than the mechanical issue.

The YouTube video coming out of this will be a good'un I promise!

Cheers again,
RR
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Old 29th Dec 2019, 3:27 pm   #8
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Default Re: Amstrad/Funai Transport Questions

It is a VFD

No display on these was commonly caused by R29 (15 ohm) being open circuit and it was probably caused by D29 (BA157) being faulty, both are in the PSU and should be replaced together. I think we stood the replacements off the board slightly to aid air-flow cooling. This was a stock fault back then.
C27 47µF,50V also caused its fair share of problems (flickery/dim display) so this should be replaced at the same time as well.
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Old 29th Dec 2019, 6:41 pm   #9
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Default Re: Amstrad/Funai Transport Questions

It would be worth comparing the diameter of the old belts with the new ones. If an old one is thicker and looks OK try putting it back and see if that cures things. The main problem was one belt slipping off then the whole lot ending up as a tangled mess! Unfortunately we never were sure which one, so we replaced them all back in the day, along with that pesky rubber brake by the left reel on the upper deck. Even a bit of mains lead sleeving could be made to work in an emergency.
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Old 29th Dec 2019, 6:47 pm   #10
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Default Re: Amstrad/Funai Transport Questions

^^^^ Agreed lol
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Old 29th Dec 2019, 7:36 pm   #11
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Default Re: Amstrad/Funai Transport Questions

Even bending the peg the dumper rubber was normally sitting on,would help as an emergency fix. Even back then, Funai mechanisms were bendable. It didn't get any better.

Which reminds me, was this the last iteration of Shintom mechanisms as used by Funai or was this a Funai design?
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Old 29th Dec 2019, 7:53 pm   #12
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Default Re: Amstrad/Funai Transport Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Welsh Anorak View Post
The main problem was one belt slipping off then the whole lot ending up as a tangled mess! Unfortunately we never were sure which one, so we replaced them all back in the day, along with that pesky rubber brake by the left reel on the upper deck. Even a bit of mains lead sleeving could be made to work in an emergency.
Especially on the difficult to access 'Double Decker'
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Old 29th Dec 2019, 10:19 pm   #13
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Default Re: Amstrad/Funai Transport Questions

You're telling me. What a confounding bit of kit to work on.

I'm an industrial automation engineer so I'm used to electronics and I've been using a soldering iron and a 'scope since I was in primary school but this blasted thing has nearly beaten me lol
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Old 31st Dec 2019, 3:47 am   #14
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Default Re: Amstrad/Funai Transport Questions

There was a recent thread where we talked about clones of this mech.

In my experience the old belts turn gooey, and you must thoroughly clean all the pulleys etc. before fitting new ones. Use toothpicks, etc. to get right in there. Avoid any contamination at all.

I have one of these in storage. One mech failed to react at all, ISTR an IC was to blame. The access is difficult and I think an extension cable set or some kind of test jig was needed to work on the thing with the top deck removed.

You need (I think) 2x2 mm square section belts on these, O rings might work but they are far less forgiving than the usual belts, so would have to be the exact size needed to give just enough tension.
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Old 31st Dec 2019, 9:33 am   #15
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Default Re: Amstrad/Funai Transport Questions

As said, there were no belts when this machine arrived, just what looked like the clean-up operation that follows a night on the Guinness....

Just goo, nothing left.

I have located some belt kits on from Dönberg which should arrive early in the New Year These'uns here - they look correct anyway.
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Old 5th Jan 2020, 4:17 pm   #16
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Default Re: Amstrad/Funai Transport Questions

Hello all,

It's me again - another question.

It seems this unit was quite *ahem* novel in that it's a two-head unit with LP facility.

Reading around on here (this seems to be where Google directs the most) there was a potential some people replaced these 'compromise' heads with better heads for improved SP performance which rendered LP unusable.

Now, I'm no expert on this but can somebody explain to me broadly what was a 'compromise' about these heads as I did not know the two speeds required different sorts of heads, or why two-head was not usually used for LP. My suspicion has something to do with reducing tape speed would have been aided by another head pair: but for all I know they may require slightly different orientation or sensitivity etc.

Any pointers welcome, I appreciate it's a numpty question but I'm genuinely interested!

Cheers,
RR
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Old 5th Jan 2020, 5:19 pm   #17
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Default Re: Amstrad/Funai Transport Questions

Yes, they were basically undersized heads designed to operate on both LP as well as SP.
There was an article in the TV mag at the time dealing predominately with the Hinari VXL8, The electronics were totally different from the Amstrad versions, the mechanics were basically the same however.

The mechanical solution to filing the trigger lever (for no FF/REW) was incorrect in that article however as it turned out to be a problem with the rubber bush/stop, which is what myself and a couple of posters earlier were referring to.
I will have a look for the article for you shortly.
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Old 5th Jan 2020, 5:28 pm   #18
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Default Re: Amstrad/Funai Transport Questions

Here is the article : https://www.americanradiohistory.com...on-1992-06.pdf

As said the electronics are totally different and should not be used for the Amstrad versions of this machine, also the advice about filing the trigger lever should be ignored too.
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Old 5th Jan 2020, 5:29 pm   #19
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Default Re: Amstrad/Funai Transport Questions

I have no experience of these machines but the head drum will still be rotating at the same speed in SP and LP but the slow tape travel will cause the track width in LP to be half that in SP so I guess you'd want heads that don't have height that causes them to read two adjacent tracks simultaneously.

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Old 5th Jan 2020, 6:27 pm   #20
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Default Re: Amstrad/Funai Transport Questions

That's really very kind of you to find that Red to Black - many thanks
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