How to stay on budget?

[Bufo Bill]

Hi, I am looking for some advice on two problems I come up against very often in my participation in our hobby.
Firstly, I am hoping to get some advice on the acquisition of components for use in my projects. I have very little money to dedicate to my hobby, and I am looking for suggestions on ways to use my money effectively when aquiring components.
I have seen YouTube videos where people squirrel away every dead electronic corpse to dismember for parts. My main problem here is my propensity for hoarding has already resulted in a house filled to the rafters with quantities of treasures that make my friends blanche. Hoarding? Fine, but where will I keep it all?
I am also wondering about how I can streamline my problem solving so that when I pay for components I pay excessive postal costs as few times as possible. Can I ask when you personally find a symptom of a fault, do you check just that area of the circuit where the fault manifests itself (as I do) or do you test the whole of the machine in question? How does an experienced hobbyist tackle a diagnosis and repair?
I feel I have a lot to learn in these areas of the hobby and your advice could help make me a better hobbyist.
Cheers from Bill.

[G6Tanuki]

Sell [or scrap] your hoard; old-stuff is rarely worth scavenging for parts to repair - something that's 20-30-40-50 years old will be full of 'parts' that are in all probability just as bad as the parts in your radios you are seeking to replace!!

Rather than holding a stock of old, untested parts - get yourself a RS account - register as a 'business' [you don't actually need to provide any proof of this!].

If you're ordering a sensible number of parts [something like £20 or so] they offer free next-day delivery by ParcelForce; stuff I order from them generally turns up before 09:00 the next day.

Why keep a stock of old, who-knows-when-it-was-made-or-when-it-was-last-tested junkpile of old stuff [which invariably occupies a lot of space] when you can get new, traceably-sourced parts delivered next-day?

[Boulevardier]

But that’s only a small part of the story. If you’re talking about resistors and capacitors and other “nuts and bolts” components, then OK - no point in using old and dodgy stock. But on here we’re dealing with vintage stuff, and many parts are just completely obsolete and unobtainable. For example, try getting an exact replacement for a Fenman mains or output transformer or, even worse, that tapped volume control. Or a replacement volume control (also with loudness tap) for one of those 1970s/1980s Grundig portables. These are just random examples of many parts, and you just won’t get new ones from RS, CPC or anyone else. I've been able to get all those things from forum members. That’s why I also ‘hoard’ things.
I’ll be eternally grateful to the forum member who had hoarded the completely unobtainable OLED display for a Pure radio, and who gave it to me FOC. That very expensive radio would have been complete scrap without it.

[19Seventy7]

Another small tip which I find works well, if I need a cap of a certain value I order a larger quantity of them and build up stock of components that way, that way I keep costs down in the long run, simple, takes time to do, but after a while it's worth it. For me anyway

[Bufo Bill]

Thanks chaps, you all make good points. I notice RS actually sell component bundles, which I will look into as well.
Cheers from Bill.

[joebog1]

eBay has numerous bundles of components at very reasonable costs. Especially resistors. A package of all E12 values from 1 ohm to 10 megs will set you back a few quid. They are available in 1/2 watt, 1 watt and 2 watts. The higher wattage ratings of course cost a bit more, but are still extremely affordable.

There are also capacitor packs, mostly polyester, but they are fine for an old radio or amplifier, although they look nothing like the bits you are replacing. Be careful of the voltage ratings. All these packs usually come in individually labelled zip bags.

As a general rule I would advise you to buy 630 volt devices as they will cover most of what you will find. Electrolytics are a different animal all together. Good ones cost and you can't avoid that.

As far as your hoard goes, I know it hurts, but chuck it out if it's old and tatty. Transformers are keepers, as are chokes and radio coils. Tuning capacitors, especially the great big "antique" ones.

One bit of advice!!! DO label everything you keep!!. It's no good if you have no idea what it is, or where it came from.

Just my 2 bob's worth.

Best regards

Joe

[The Philpott]

The main thing i would say is try not to tie yourself up in knots- life's too short.
Easily said..!

The perennial problem which we will all have come across- no matter what assortment of capacitors, nuts and bolts, bulbs, screws you have- if you need 6 of a specific type you'll either have 3 or none! But a little hoard of odds and sods means you have something to trade with- you may have something somebody else wants, and they may have summat you need. (Swaps not allowed on the forum, but you can arrange to trade privately, of course.)

Dave

[Diabolical Artificer]

I too am on a tight budget but luckily being a member of this forum kind folks donate components or sell me stuff at cost, I try to do the same, that helps. I harvest wire from old TV's, PC monitors etc and save resistors and caps off PCB's as well as big stuff like relays, tfmr's and big transistors/mosfets. this does save money but you have to be organised and hard, I have a "one in,one out policy" to try and stop accumulation of tat . Once a PCB is picked clean of the big stuff I bin it.

Re fault finding it takes a while to get your mojo working, the more stuff you fix, you get better at it. When I started, I floundered around totally clueless, I still do compared to a lot of more knowledgeable folk but am getting better at it.

In my experience most faults are down to either short circuits, a SC or leaky capacitor or transistor say or one or two components. you can find these with your meter.

The first thing you have to do is to define the fault, narrow things down a bit. EG I had a scope with an iffy timebase, it looked "funny". .After talking to myself and asking myself questions like "what is it exactly that's "funny" & "is it funny on all settings" I sussed it was only "funny" on the "5" settings, IE 0.005s 0.5s, 5s etc, I then looked at the TB schematic to see if all the "5" settings shared a common circuit. After study I sussed that there was one resistor that might be at fault. Sure enough it was OC, what's more it had been replaced before and what's even more of a giveaway it was right next to a hot valve. Resistor replaced, TB no longer "funny", I won one, fault finding mojo power up one notch.

After checking the DUT visually with a magnifying glass another good starting point is to check the power supply, are the DC conditions right? Next, check the ripple or AC on the power supply, another good indicator of possible faults. Another tip,start to think in terms of current as well as voltage, it will open up a whole new world. Lastly I pick up the odd tip watching Youtube videos as well as reading posts here and I read up online old papers and documents. Some good well known Youtubers are Uncle Doug, Xray Tony and I do the odd video and try and show my screw ups as well as explain stuff - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtW...f5jk16GkCVl4fA but more than anything spend time on the bench doing, have a go, build stuff, screw up often.

Good luck, Andy.

[TonyDuell]

I will agree that it is rarely a good idea to raid common/cheap parts (resistors, capacitors, small-signal transistors, etc) from scrap units. It is much better to buy new, they are not expensive.

But as the 'items wanted' section here will attest, there are plenty of parts that are not available new. The only source for those is from an old unit or somebody's spares box. So there are most certainly parts that are worth keeping. And you don't know until it's too late what bits you need.

And of course at the moment components are hard to get worldwide. I normally use RS, this morning _everything_ I might need was out of stock with a long lead time (if one is given at all). I am glad I've got stocks of common value resistors, transistors, ICs, etc.

I generally buy common components 100 at a time. It doesn't cost that much and you soon build up a stock of things you use. Of course what _I_ use (most of my work is vintage computers and test gear) and what _you_ use (say for vintage radio) might be very different.

As for diagnosis, this is one reason I miss Maplin. It's often very hard to find all the faults in a unit at one go. More often you have to fix the power supply and only then do you realise there's a fault in, say, the control logic. It was handy to be able to hop on a bus and pick up a few parts to get the next bit going. But that's not the case now. So yes, you have to make educated guesses as to what you might need, and if you get it wrong do another order and wait around for it to come (ARGH!). To save on postage costs (although it does nothing for my bank balance!) I try to ensure all my orders are over the 'free postage' threshold. There are always extra bits you can use -- nuts and bolts, resistors, cleaning solvent, etc. Better to put the money into something like that than just into postage.

[SeanStevens]

It is difficult to throw stuff out - I know, it has been agony emptying any surface or cupboard I have!

However, one man's junk is another's gold. Selling stuff you have no use for (a difficult call I know) can give you funds for new components.


It is impossible to have all the parts you need all the time. Even common parts come in different sizes and types. Capacitors are the worst for this. You can have the right value, but for a too low voltage range - a nightmare. So it will always be a necessity to order components - no matter what you keep hold of.

In this situation - where cash is short, you will need to take longer sourcing parts to keep the price low. So Time = Money here.

Also, there is nothing worse than ordering components only to pick up another repair job item that also needs more of the same components you have just bought used up.

A difficult balancing act where a crystal ball is required!

SEAN

[David Simpson]

Hello Bill, you're from a part of the Midlands I know well. ( I remember the Wulfrun Center & the Mander Certer being built). And, I attended both the CFE & the Poly.
Forum-wise, there is a strong keen membership of contributors near you, and across the border in Salop. Get chatting to these guys. Now that hopefully Covid restrictions are slackening, find out where decent local ARS junk sales are being held(often a good source of decent 2nd hand electronics spares). Stafford to the north was the base of the late Chas Millar, a well known wheeler-dealer in VR. Even further north in Hack Green, Cheshire, the Amateur Radio fraternity used to hold big junk sales.
Some folk advise against acquiring lots of old pre-war spares & junk. But there is also a number of keen restorers who demand & expect that some rare sets are restored "as was", and often old components can be "re-stuffed" with modern components whilst retaining their original "look".

Regards, David

[Sideband]

I agree there is very little, if anything, to be saved by using resistors (and especially capacitors) from old chassis. However as has been said, some parts are worth salvaging....things like tuning gangs, mains and output transformers (good ones or course), concentric volume and tone controls (they are unobtainable now). Even nuts and bolts are worth keeping and valveholders (they can be drilled out if riveted) but make sure they are worth salvaging first. Valves themselves are worth keeping if they are known to be good or at least working. Basically you have to make a judgement on what you want to keep depending on what you are restoring. Over time you will accumulate parts.

[CambridgeWorks]

Bill, you don't say what you are mainly interested in. The era, whether radio, tv, audio, test gear, valve, transistor, ic, analogue or digital. Repairing for yourself, to sell on or a full restoration.
Answering these, should give us some pointers for more specific advice for your needs and point you in the best direction.

I started nearly 60 years ago, just dismantling junk radios my uncle gave me. He was a part time repairer and had a lot of junk!
Aged around 13, I became interested in amateur radio and started buying Practical Wireless and Short Wave Magazine. It was the frustration of seeing all those projects I wanted to make but never having the parts that set my life on course to accumulate various bits as and when I saw them available cheaply.
Radio rallies and junk sales were my main source, especially bargain boxes towards the end of the event when sometimes they cost little or better still, free!
For more specific items, there were dealers like John Birkett, about 45 miles away. Or, mail order from magazine advertisers.
Over many years I accumulated a huge amount and it is rare for me not to have an item in stock for a repair or project. This was of most benefit when over 30 years ago I was unexpectedly made redundant from my pmr servicing job and started to buy test gear to repair that was to help pay the bills. Rarely was I short of a part.
In fact, there is so much, that it is needing a lot of thought as to how to thin it out now I am getting on in years. I don't like parting with much, this is how this hobby can sometimes control you!
My wife of nearly 50 years has always been very tolerant and understanding, which is a great bonus. It was her positive thoughts prompted me to keep the A22 I am currently working on.

Let us know your ambitions and we will try to guide you on the best course.
Radio rallies will get more prolific once this covid is controlled. They usually provide anything from component sellers, mail order return type electronics, deceased estate clearances and fellow enthusiasts who like to sell a bit and buy a bit with their own stall.
A day out to one of these events can be most enjoyable. Especially after these past 2 years.

Rob

[Welsh Anorak]

Yes Bill - tell us your area of interest and we can point you in the right direction. For example I'm clearing a lot of NOS items at the moment from the Fifties to the 2000s which I'm putting on the offered section for the price of postage. Might have something for you?

[Bufo Bill]

Guys; thanks so much for your help, I can see a lot of hard-won knowledge has been written up here. I will definitely try to attend some of the meetings that are close by (it's the train for me, I don't drive), I anticipate much fun from them.
I will order in a few bits extra if I fall short of the free postage limit, and ebay is a great suggestion too Joe.
Robin asked where my interest lies; Valve era Hifi, and I am becoming addicted to vintage test gear, particularly HP 180 Series scopes and plug ins.
Cheers guys.

[ToneArm]

In the past I would strip down old scrap sets but I found I forgot what things were and didn't know what parts I had. So now I keep the scrappers whole and pull bits off only when I need something. Which isn't that often but still great when it saves he day.

They are mainly in the loft, and I dread the odd times my wife wants to put stuff in or out, christmas decs for instance. The full extent of my madness is revealed and there's usually swearing and shouting while we crash about in the debris..

Resistors and caps i buy new and also use RS. I find their range of components, through-hole ones at least, is much smaller than it used to be and often you have to buy in quantity, which isn't ideal for the budget. But their service is fantastic. I remember when the massive printed catalogues in five volumes used to arrive at work, we'd spend whole afternoons browsing them! I liked the RS branded tools a lot.

Glyn

[Diabolical Artificer]

If valve era hifi is your thang it's possible to build an amp cheaply, the only things that cost are valves and iron. There are loads of sources for cheapish OPT's, Primary Windings in the UK as well as others, Toroidy in Poland for both mains and OPT's or you can buy 2nd hand toroid tfmrs with the wrong secondary voltages,take them off, then wind on your own; a 1kg roll of wire is only about a tenner and does a few tfmr's.

1.75mm or 2mm ali sheet 1m x 2m & a few yards of L section is about £30 delivered, an angle grinder and a few cheap chassis punches and you have a good supply of chassis. The 0.75mm ali sheet can be cut with scissors to make brackets, screening cans etc.

There are sources for cheap valves RS do valves at a reasonable price as does Langrex/Billington. If you put in the time searching on the web there are cheap valves to be had, just not common types. You have to do your research, think out of the box and keep searching. I've recently found two places in the UK that sell valves and big caps and other NOS goodies cheap, am keeping them well under my hat.

So, if you have time but no money it can be done. a few last tips.Old washing machines are a great source of good grade copper cored wire as well as self tappers.Old test gear that is unrestorable is a good source of valve bases, nut's and bolts etc. I save all nuts and bolts, grommets etc and bags of 100 3mm screws are only a few quid. Turret tags are stupid expensive, use IC sockets,the ones that come in single strips, pull out the metal insert,one turret tag.I also use M2.5 bolts/nuts. Lastly a Dremmel type drill thingy and copper clad board and you can make your own tag boards/PCB's cheaply.

Andy.

[Chris55000]

Hi!

T & M afficionados should always try and get at least one parts–mule of any piece of H.P. or Tek equipment, many oscilloscopes, signal generators, counters, power supplies, etc., etc., are bound to have at least half–a–dozen semiconductors made out of pure unobtainium!

Also where larger parts are salvaged for reuse, always check the manual for associated bracketry, spacers, mounting hardware, etc., sooner or later you'll get something that's been "got at" and missing some ancillary mechanical part you wouldn't have a hope of finding separately –carrying handles and their associated trim bits are valuable!

NEVER turf out a T.Q. or Tek T.B. plug–in without saving the 155–etc., Custom Sweep and Trigger IC's from it, likewise the 130 Ω NTC thermistors from old T.Q. Vertical plugins – these are VA1040s, very useful for transistor radio output stages!

Chris Williams

[qtronix]

Originally Posted by Bufo Bill

Hi, I am looking for some advice on two problems I come up against very often in my participation in our hobby.
Firstly, I am hoping to get some advice on the acquisition of components for use in my projects. I have very little money to dedicate to my hobby, and I am looking for suggestions on ways to use my money effectively when aquiring components.
I have seen YouTube videos where people squirrel away every dead electronic corpse to dismember for parts. My main problem here is my propensity for hoarding has already resulted in a house filled to the rafters with quantities of treasures that make my friends blanche. Hoarding? Fine, but where will I keep it all?
I am also wondering about how I can streamline my problem solving so that when I pay for components I pay excessive postal costs as few times as possible. Can I ask when you personally find a symptom of a fault, do you check just that area of the circuit where the fault manifests itself (as I do) or do you test the whole of the machine in question? How does an experienced hobbyist tackle a diagnosis and repair?
I feel I have a lot to learn in these areas of the hobby and your advice could help make me a better hobbyist.
Cheers from Bill.

i live in wolverhampton/ willenhall aswell if you need anything send me a pm, i have a shed full of electronics, if i have spare i don't mind helping people out as many that no me, works both ways if you get me. i do a lot of auctions aswell so come across all kinds of stuff. gf says junk lol.

[ben]

It's also quite surprising how much useful stuff for vintage repair can be harvested from the least likely of sources. I recently reorganized a bit of my storage area and ended up uncovering boxes of old midi hifis, PC PSUs, CD-Rom drives, telephones, set top boxes, even a few printers. All basically worthless skip finds I had picked up over the last decade and a half.

I spent a couple of afternoons stripping them all down, then dumped the carcasses at the tip.

-The PSUs had plenty of decent caps, chunky resistors, MOSFETS, heat sinks, fuses, bits of cable, chunky diodes and bridges and IEC sockets. Also a few other lighter connectors.
- The CD Rom drives had lots of nice plastic gears, some of which I've already used to repair cassette decks and even the juicer in the kitchen! Plus some motors, c-clips, rubber grommets and belts and leaf switches.
- The midi hi fis had nice beefy mains transformers with outputs ranging from 5-24v, plus knobs, cassette deck chassis, LEDs with good length legs, slider pots, some output devices, clips, metal struts, connectors, xtals, motors, transistors etc.
- Most the set top boxes only yielded a PSU PCB. The odd chassis mount socket too.
- Printers yielded all manner of springs, motors, hardware, clips, gears, rods, and some PSU bits.

This kind of stuff can easily be had for free or found dumped. If you're patient then you can end up with a nice supply of reusable bits. If you're pushed for space then strip it down when you get it home - don't accumulate as long as I did before sitting down to cannibalize in one or two mammoth sessions!