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Old 8th Dec 2022, 1:32 am   #21
RojDW48
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Default Re: Record cleaning machines

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Originally Posted by Craig Sawyers View Post
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I use a Moth RCM - scrub and suck!! Just the ticket.
Me too. I bought mine when they offered it as a kit. Build your own box according to plans they supplied.

The suck is provided by a vacuum cleaner pump. That is why it makes such a racket.

Craig
It certainly is not quiet!! But the unmodulated groove sure is afterwards.
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Old 8th Dec 2022, 12:51 pm   #22
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Default Re: Record cleaning machines

Thanks for all the comments. Ammonia used to be available in many shops but only online now. Maybe the smell doesn't help - just don't mix it with bleach!

I can see that removing residue by suction is good and that is what "proper" record cleaning machines have always done.

Regarding residue left in the cleaning solution of an ultrasonic machine, if it is just used for cleaning records and has a 6l tank I wouldn't expect there would be a lot of dirt in suspension. One wouldn't use the same solution to clean something dirty and then do records of course.

I am tending towards the ultrasonic machine in view of the cost and potential use for other things. I'll probably leave it until after Christmas to make a final decision.
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Old 8th Dec 2022, 1:07 pm   #23
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Default Re: Record cleaning machines

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I am tending towards the ultrasonic machine in view of the cost and potential use for other things. I'll probably leave it until after Christmas to make a final decision.
You could always consider a small ultrasonic cleaner for clock parts etc and a vacuum RCM for vinyl. Best of both worlds!

Alan
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Old 8th Dec 2022, 1:21 pm   #24
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Default Re: Record cleaning machines

Knosti works really well, I've had one for years. Just be prepared for plenty of fluff on the needle the first time you play it after cleaning!
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Old 8th Dec 2022, 4:11 pm   #25
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Default Re: Record cleaning machines

I have a Knosti and have operated a two-bath system in the past.

One thing to say about the Knosti is that you should probably get the clamp fettled to stop liquid ingress. As a result of this thread I have found that the person I was going to recommend has shut down - https://en-template-cv-16178918496147.onepage.website/ that page at least shows you what I mean.

For the two-bath system I use a mix of IPA, distilled (rather than deionized) water and Ifotil surfactant and this goes in bath one to soak and rotate the disc. In bath two I use a mix of distilled water and the surfactant to rinse.

Is it perfect? No. But then I don't see how vacuum systems can get all the dirt out in such a short time either. And then even if you do get a clean record, the next thing you do it put it on the platter which won't be clean... it's a balance really.

If I had the cash myself I'd think about an ultrasonic cleaner and perhaps use my Knosti to rinse.
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Old 8th Dec 2022, 4:33 pm   #26
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Default Re: Record cleaning machines

[QUOTE=ajgriff;1519604]
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Originally Posted by OldTechFan96 View Post
...Air drying is the real problem (as it is with simple ultrasonics) because as the fluid evaporates a certain amount of material is left behind on the record surface...

Hence the use of ILFOTOL and spinning the record to remove water before final drying. Perhaps final drying is a misnomer as after a decent spin the record surface is at least as dry as it would be after vacuuming. There is absolutely no visible residue.

The other great thing with ultrasonic is that it cleans without any rubbing or friction to the grooves, no matter how soft the brushes and pads on a vacuum machine are the dirt is rubbed out of the groove before being sucked away and will abrade the surface ever so slightly in the process.

Steve.
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Old 8th Dec 2022, 4:46 pm   #27
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Default Re: Record cleaning machines

Good points by @fetteler

While we are on the subject it's probably worth mentioning that when you clean a disc it is worth putting it back in a new inner sleeve. You can get these from a range of suppliers - I use Covers33 (just a customer - no other link to them).
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Old 8th Dec 2022, 5:03 pm   #28
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Default Re: Record cleaning machines

Yes, I absolutely agree about the new inner sleeve and forgot to mention it. It's by far and away best to use the ones with a plastic liner - the plain paper type is slightly abrasive and often will also shed paper fibres onto your newly cleaned record.

The 12" polylined sleeves from Covers33 mentioned by Martin above look to be just the job.

Steve.
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Old 8th Dec 2022, 8:07 pm   #29
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Default Re: Record cleaning machines

I’ve used the knosti for a few years and also some spares from HiQual linked….the knosti works fine for what it is…..if you’ve thousands of pounds tied up in vinyl then a few hundred pound RCM will be better. I just can’t justify the expense. Shame HiQual has closed he did some innovative bits for the knosti.
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Old 8th Dec 2022, 8:27 pm   #30
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Default Re: Record cleaning machines

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….the knosti works fine for what it is…..if you’ve thousands of pounds tied up in vinyl then a few hundred pound RCM will be better. I just can’t justify the expense.
You could always make a vacuum RCM yourself of course. All you really need is a scrap turntable and a 'wet & dry' vacuum cleaner. Even if you had to buy a suitable cheap vacuum cleaner they can be had new for under £50. There are plenty of DIY RCM examples on the Internet.

Alan
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Old 9th Dec 2022, 8:47 am   #31
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Default Re: Record cleaning machines

If you do contemplate building one yourself this is the thread to look at.

https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...d.php?t=167210

Peter
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Old 9th Dec 2022, 10:21 am   #32
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Default Re: Record cleaning machines

The cost effective ultrasonic cleaner that has been discussed is exceptionally powerful at 180W. That is why the bath heats up all on its lonesome.

That is a lot of power to be putting into a vinyl record. I think the ultrasonic devices specifically for cleaning records use a lot less power than that.

Craig
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Old 9th Dec 2022, 10:55 am   #33
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Default Re: Record cleaning machines

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Originally Posted by Whaam68 View Post
….the knosti works fine for what it is…..if you’ve thousands of pounds tied up in vinyl then a few hundred pound RCM will be better. I just can’t justify the expense.
You could always make a vacuum RCM yourself of course. All you really need is a scrap turntable and a 'wet & dry' vacuum cleaner. Even if you had to buy a suitable cheap vacuum cleaner they can be had new for under £50. There are plenty of DIY RCM examples on the Internet.

Alan
That's a possibility Alan but unfortunately I already have a list of projects as long as my arm that are half started or that I haven't got too yet. It's lack of spare time that's my problem with other commitments. TBH I have a fair bit of vinyl but rarely get to sit and listen to it. Mostly I have CD's on in the background while I'm doing other things.
regards
Mike
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Old 9th Dec 2022, 1:11 pm   #34
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Default Re: Record cleaning machines

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Originally Posted by Craig Sawyers View Post
The cost effective ultrasonic cleaner that has been discussed is exceptionally powerful at 180W. That is why the bath heats up all on its lonesome.

That is a lot of power to be putting into a vinyl record. I think the ultrasonic devices specifically for cleaning records use a lot less power than that.

Craig
Are you sure??

I think 150W is about average for this type of machine and the machine mentioned is not 'extremely' powerful when compared to the others out there - these machine are used extensively with excellent results. Of course all that energy does not 'go into' the record itself, the way to think of it is in terms of power density and to this end you must remember that the power is spread throughout the entire 6 litres of water. Lower powered ultrasonic cleaners have proportionately smaller tanks to keep the necessary power density in the cleaning medium. Also all ultrasonic cleaners heat up over time at about the same rate (because of the similar power density) as the power is dissipated by viscous losses in the fluid. I am not saying that mechanical cleaners are not good, they are excellent and differences in results between the two methods are small. Any record cleaning (within reason!) is going to be good.

Don't forget too that you usually get 4 records at a time in the machines (time saving if, like me you have hundreds to do) which is a bit of a bonus and if you are upset by 180W (mines actually 150) then you can divide by 4 and get 45W per record.

Steve.

PS See here for example - there are lots of other manufacturers out here all with very similar specs for their machines:
https://darklanternforowen.wordpress...cleaning-pt-2/
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Last edited by fetteler; 9th Dec 2022 at 1:29 pm. Reason: ps
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Old 9th Dec 2022, 6:54 pm   #35
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Default Re: Record cleaning machines

I should correct something in my post above. After doing a bit of reading and refreshing my understanding; rather than viscous losses, most of the power of an ultrasonic cleaner is dissipated in the cavitation events which happen throughout the fluid in the cleaner and of course are the mechanism by which the cleaning happens.

Steve.
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Old 9th Dec 2022, 9:40 pm   #36
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Default Re: Record cleaning machines

Has anybody got a good and effective recipe for the cleaning fluid.
I've got an Ultrasonic record Cleaner that I need a new batch of cleaning liquid for.
I believe the original fluid is a blend of de ionised filtered water and IPA with a drop of wetting agent, it's the proportions I need to know.
Some seem to think just pure water with a bit of wetting agent to kill surface tension is adequate and if thats OK then problem solved.
Incidentally the recommended wtaer bath temperature is 30 degC on my Velvet Vortex branded device.
Andy
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Old 9th Dec 2022, 9:52 pm   #37
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Default Re: Record cleaning machines

Thats an interesting link Steve. I have heard about US cleaning machines, but never seen one.
Thinking about it US would be much better than the VPI because there is no contact with the record(s).

After getting the add on rotator for the records its not a lot different in price than the VPI.
( about $1000 Au ). Then again, I have about 3500 LP's, mostly in VGC, so its worth contemplating.

I havent been able to glean how long the records take to clean however. With the manual VPI its about five minutes per disc ( both sides ).

AS always with vinyl, I am watching this thread.

Joe
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Old 9th Dec 2022, 10:59 pm   #38
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Default Re: Record cleaning machines

I go for about 10 minutes cleaning Joe, that's for a maximum of 4 discs in my machine though there is plenty of room on the spindle to get another couple on there - just need to make some plastic spacers which hopefully I will get round to sometime this winter.

Did you see the link I posted earlier on in the thread - a complete machine costs about GBP160, that's around AUD300 which is great value.

Steve.
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Old 9th Dec 2022, 11:03 pm   #39
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Default Re: Record cleaning machines

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Originally Posted by bikerhifinut View Post
Has anybody got a good and effective recipe for the cleaning fluid.
I've got an Ultrasonic record Cleaner that I need a new batch of cleaning liquid for.
I believe the original fluid is a blend of de ionised filtered water and IPA with a drop of wetting agent, it's the proportions I need to know.
Some seem to think just pure water with a bit of wetting agent to kill surface tension is adequate and if thats OK then problem solved.
Incidentally the recommended wtaer bath temperature is 30 degC on my Velvet Vortex branded device.
Andy
FWIW I belong to the water + wetting agent club and it seems to be grand, just grand. And yes, something like 30c (warm ish to the touch) is what I go for.

Steve.
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Old 10th Dec 2022, 12:12 am   #40
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Default Re: Record cleaning machines

I dunno where you get that price from Steve. The cheapest I can find JUST the PS-30A is about $400.
You then need the rotator for about $130 NZ which with freight will be another $300.

Joe

p.s. GBP is about 2:1 at the moment. Our money comes on rolls and hangs on the wall in the convenience.

Last edited by joebog1; 10th Dec 2022 at 12:13 am. Reason: additional info
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