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Vintage Computers Any vintage computer systems, calculators, video games etc., but with an emphasis on 1980s and earlier equipment. |
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26th Jan 2023, 5:04 pm | #1 |
Pentode
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: Northampton, Northamptonshire, UK
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INS8060 SC/MP Library
Following on from SiriusHardware's post in this thread https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...d.php?t=155295 Owen has dug out a load of Elektors with most of the referenced SC/MP articles and I have been duly scanning them in.
I thought it would be useful to put these documents and everything else I have SC/MP related in one place so here it is: http://theoddys.com/acorn/Acorn%20Sy...p_library.html We're stilling digging out some of the missing Elektor articles and I imagine there are plenty of other interesting documents out there as well ? Chris |
26th Jan 2023, 6:33 pm | #2 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Newcastle, Tyne and Wear, UK.
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Re: INS8060 SC/MP Library
Kind of you to do that - Tim is our chief librarian / archivist, he's the best person to ask about every single reference ever made to the MK14 and / or SC/MP in any publication, ever.
I went through all of 'Computing Today' for the year 1980 recently noting down everything SC/MP or MK14 related that I happened to find in a text file - I'll try to dig it out. Last edited by SiriusHardware; 26th Jan 2023 at 6:47 pm. |
26th Jan 2023, 7:25 pm | #3 | |
Pentode
Join Date: Nov 2022
Location: Chesham, Buckinghamshire, UK.
Posts: 135
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Re: INS8060 SC/MP Library
Quote:
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26th Jan 2023, 7:50 pm | #4 |
Pentode
Join Date: Jan 2021
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Re: INS8060 SC/MP Library
I gave all my Computing Todays to Owen so we should be able to get those articles scanned in as well !
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26th Jan 2023, 9:05 pm | #5 |
Octode
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Northampton, Northamptonshire, UK.
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Re: INS8060 SC/MP Library
I hadn't realised Elektor English back-issues had been pulled from being online - On one site at least, although I suspect there are various others with these.
Maybe it's because they keep trying to sell their own USB Memory Stick with all issues on - Often on half-price offer from the >> £100 normal price I was a Gold subscriber, but has now lapsed - I've been waiting for them to have another half-price etc. off on subscriptions, they often had once a twice a year and annoyed me that this was 'for new customers only' (Although I've often bought the offer only a short while after my previous subscription expired, so not sure at what point you are no longer an old customer!) I thought Gold subscribers only got to download individual articles for free. And had to buy archive DVD's etc for whole issues (Although you got a free one at the end of the year for current subscription year) Yes, I should have virtually all physical copies of Computing today. Although they have (all?) been scanned already, at: http://flaxcottage.com/ComputingToday/ And also at Archive.org, but not as easy to find in one places. So need to look at: https://archive.org/searchquery=subj...uting+Today%22 and https://archive.org/details/computing-today-1982 etc So probably easier to just extract the relevant pages into a separate pdf, with an appropriate pdf-editor program (The full Acrobat, with OCR etc that came with scanners does this, but are free pdf-split-merge ones) |
26th Jan 2023, 9:51 pm | #6 |
Dekatron
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Location: Newcastle, Tyne and Wear, UK.
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Re: INS8060 SC/MP Library
I have actually toyed in the past with the idea of trying to draw every magazine based SC/MP or MK14 related article into one collated PDF, what a resource that would be. Unfortunately I just don't have time.
Maybe we should 'crowdsource' this so we each take three years (1978-1980) of one specific UK electronics or computing magazine and trawl through it noting any related articles or ads, and then pull it all together in one reference table which just contains the magazine name, issue date, page number, name of the article and a one line synopsis of the content. I can tell you for example that Practical Electronics supported the MK14 quite well, so it's worth looking through issues of PE from that period. |
26th Jan 2023, 11:08 pm | #7 |
Octode
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Northampton, Northamptonshire, UK.
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Re: INS8060 SC/MP Library
I had been thinking of just creating separate pdf's of each article, as Chris has been doing. Rather than the 'complete-works' of SC/MP etc, as pdf could be rather large if originated from scan - even after OCR-ihg / trying compression.
If the PE 'back-issues' available online have been OCR'd, that many are available as on various archive-site, then searching on SC/MP (maybe also SC-MP & SCMP), may speed things up. But as OCRing is rarely 100%, then might miss single-references in an article / ad. Although PE is the last surviving pure Electronics magazine available from major Newsagent shops, it was only renamed back to that fairly-recently from the EPE merger with Everyday Electronics (Which EPE basically was) - And EE's older more in-depth PE Sister publication basically died. (A bit like PW has just absorbed Sister-publication Radio User, itself from many mergers.) So no official source of PE back-issues in Digital form, with only EPE (Maybe original EE-titled ones, if they went back that far) ones sold. - Even though PE did generally have more advanced computer etc projects. There's not many (Only Elektor & RadCom ?), that have officially released all back-issues to their very first issue. Although not that many still going! |
26th Jan 2023, 11:53 pm | #8 |
Pentode
Join Date: Nov 2022
Location: Chesham, Buckinghamshire, UK.
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Re: INS8060 SC/MP Library
I do have gold membership if there is are any specific Elektors back issues people are interested in.
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27th Jan 2023, 1:27 am | #9 |
Octode
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Location: Northampton, Northamptonshire, UK.
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Re: INS8060 SC/MP Library
I bought their 1980-1989 DVD, but I suspect many of the articles will be in the late 70's (can't remember if I've got that one yet / whether they did a whole-decade one, before they put them all on a USB Memory stick)
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27th Jan 2023, 7:59 pm | #10 |
Octode
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Barry, Vale of Glamorgan, Wales, UK.
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Re: INS8060 SC/MP Library
I have notes that I have been putting together of all SC/MP references (not just MK14) but, they are not fully organised as yet - intending at some point to make a reference book like an Index with a synopsis of the articles - getting permission to reprint the articles would be a nightmare.
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27th Jan 2023, 10:37 pm | #11 |
Dekatron
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Location: Newcastle, Tyne and Wear, UK.
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Re: INS8060 SC/MP Library
I think this may be the pragmatic approach as collecting all eligible articles from many sources together into one Mega PDF and putting it online may incur the wrath of not just one, but many rights holders.
I don't imagine that will deter people from using said reference list to collect and compile their own PDF reference volumes, however. |
28th Jan 2023, 12:44 pm | #12 |
Dekatron
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Location: Newcastle, Tyne and Wear, UK.
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Re: INS8060 SC/MP Library
Incidentally there have been a few times when people have noticed errors in old documentation but not elaborated on what those errors were, it might be good to start compiling a list of those 'Errata'.
One 'error' that we know of is a modern one, many PDF copies of the version 2 manual for the MK14 have a page missing, from the 'Moon Landing' program listing. Tim has a corrected version in which he restored the missing page and that has been posted in a few places here now. Phil_G mentioned recently that there are errors in the 'Understanding Microprocessors With The MK14' book but didn't have time to elaborate on where or what they were. If the documents themselves can't be overwritten or corrected with a footnote, then perhaps the next best thing would be an 'Errata' file in the same .zip file as the main document. |
28th Jan 2023, 5:20 pm | #13 |
Octode
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Perth, Scotland
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Re: INS8060 SC/MP Library
I have a full set of early (1978-1980) Personal Computer World magazines and I'm quite happy (slowly) to go through them and scan relevant pages.
Would just Mk14 articles/listings/adverts be useful? What about other SC/MP and SC/MP2 computers? Colin. |
29th Jan 2023, 12:01 pm | #14 |
Dekatron
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Location: Newcastle, Tyne and Wear, UK.
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Re: INS8060 SC/MP Library
The excellent world radio history website has online collections of a great many electronics and computing magazines from the period of interest. Unfortunately some of the rights holders have only very recently taken exception to this and have asked that some titles be removed from the site.
Personal Computer World is still there so there should be no need to scan yours, for the moment at least. https://worldradiohistory.com/Person...uter_World.htm What you could do whenever the mood takes you is to read through them over a period of time noting any MK14 or SC/MP related articles or adverts, the issue (Year/Month), the page number, the title of the article if it is an article or the name of the advertiser if it is an advert, and a one line synopsis of what the article or advert is about. |
29th Jan 2023, 12:20 pm | #15 |
Dekatron
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Re: INS8060 SC/MP Library
Just looking at the first issue, immediately on the inside cover there is a full page advert from Bywood who, as they say in their introduction, produced the SC/MP based Scrumpi 1 and Scrumpi II kits - although strangely enough there is nothing SC/MP related for sale in the advert!
On page 8, a very early full page advert for the MK14 featuring a drawing of an MK14 which looks nothing like the actual MK14. So at this stage Science Of Cambridge were taking orders for something which probably didn't yet exist in the form factor which would eventually make its way into the hands of users. Last edited by SiriusHardware; 29th Jan 2023 at 12:27 pm. |
4th Feb 2023, 12:52 am | #16 | ||
Octode
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Northampton, Northamptonshire, UK.
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Re: INS8060 SC/MP Library
Quote:
In the Bywood Electronics ad, they did say they "distribute all the support devices for the SC/MP microprocessor" But whilst they list expensive Char Gen IC's, they don't actually list any processors (Inc. the SC/MP). They also mention the ETI System 68, but no prices etc. So maybe they didn't want to pay for more than a one page advert (But could have got a lot more things listed - like Grandata etc. did in 'Television') Perhaps they thought people would telephone them / write to them to request a full list (enclosing an SAE etc of course!) - In the days before websites Quote:
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12th Feb 2023, 9:50 pm | #17 |
Octode
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Northampton, Northamptonshire, UK.
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Re: INS8060 SC/MP Library
For Info:
I've just noticed the odd PE etc MK14 article, here: https://rk.nvg.ntnu.no/sinclair/comp...4_articles.htm Although mostly promotional material / reviews, and have all been re-created as webpages - rather than a scan of the original, so lose that retro-look. Although there is a photo-gallery of a few originals. It looks a bit of an abandoned (MK14) area, as the MK14 Websites link under 'Resources' seems to now be broken. Also there is an interesting article on the Scamp and SoC opting to use an NS reference design for the MK14, that mentions 10,000 -15,000 MK14 kits were sold after SoC had only initially ordered 2,000 chipsets from NS: https://rk.nvg.ntnu.no/sinclair/comp...4/mk14_sst.htm |
12th Feb 2023, 10:40 pm | #18 |
Octode
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: North Yorkshire, UK.
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Re: INS8060 SC/MP Library
How about a GitHub page that members can upload to?
So many retro websites have disappeared, at least the archive would be safe |
12th Feb 2023, 10:50 pm | #19 |
Octode
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Northampton, Northamptonshire, UK.
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Re: INS8060 SC/MP Library
Although I'm not sure if you could have a user-friendly Wiki etc page, to index these with Github, that would be nice / if this could easily be updated by more than one person.
I've just noticed some howlers with many production dates, on this webpage (as well as current used-priced being rather higher than those listed - Well the copyright message on these webpages is 1994-2003): https://rk.nvg.ntnu.no/sinclair/mark...ter_market.htm Last edited by ortek_service; 12th Feb 2023 at 10:56 pm. |
5th Mar 2023, 11:01 pm | #20 |
Octode
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Northampton, Northamptonshire, UK.
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Re: INS8060 SC/MP Library
Just looking through some more old back-issues of Elektor, I found a couple more recent SC/MP related projects than those on SiriusHardware's list etc on the (now closed thread): https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...d.php?t=155295
Elektor Jul/Aug '80 P 7-09 'Cassette Interface Adaption' - For existing SC/MP cassette interfaces (Pauses uP to create EOL gaps) in Elektor Jan '78 / Elekterminal in Dec '78 to make into special cassette interface (eg Elektor BASIC Micro May '80) Elektor Jul/Aug '82 P 7-37 'Dynamic RAM for SC/MP' - Refresh Mods to Dynamic RAM Card (Elektor Apr '82 - Orig for Junior Computer) for SC/MP owners BTW, I've also discovered that more recent PW magazines may have been pulled / older ones are now low-res. at: https://worldradiohistory.com/Practi...s_Magazine.htm Where it says (before an advert for the official PW disc) "The files on this site are greatly compressed and optimized for web downloading. They are copy and print protected and authorized only in that fashion by the original publisher" So it does seem that publishers of still-active magazines at least are now getting even fairly-old copies removed. |