UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Powered By Google Custom Search Vintage Radio and TV Service Data

Go Back   UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum > General Vintage Technology > Components and Circuits

Notices

Components and Circuits For discussions about component types, alternatives and availability, circuit configurations and modifications etc. Discussions here should be of a general nature and not about specific sets.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 15th Jan 2022, 6:53 pm   #21
McMurdo
Dekatron
 
McMurdo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Staffordshire Moorlands, UK.
Posts: 5,263
Default Re: Fake transistors.

I've never had fakes off any franchined distributor, I wouldn't expect to, but from the smaller 'hobbyist' suppliers, a couple of whom are on this forum's 'recommended suppliers' list, the answer is 'yes'. Audio mosfets that short at switch on, LOP transistors that only last a few days, op-amps with built-in hiss, that sort of thing. This was in the days before fakery was generally recognised as being a thing, ie before I knew better.

Nowadays I only get obsolete parts from known 'NOS' specialists I can trust.

To be fair to UK suppliers, both Mouser and Digikey in the US are suffering similar stock problems, although I guess their size means they're lagging a little behind europe.
__________________
Kevin
McMurdo is offline  
Old 16th Jan 2022, 10:37 am   #22
nutteronthebus
Hexode
 
nutteronthebus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Glossop, Derbyshire, UK.
Posts: 487
Default Re: Fake transistors.

I too have had copy "fake" power transistors a 2N3055 with gain of 100's and from RS delay of 8 months for a MJ15003 power transistors on back order
__________________
Any tool can be used as a hammer but a screwdriver makes the best chisel
nutteronthebus is offline  
Old 16th Jan 2022, 10:50 am   #23
Ed_Dinning
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne, Tyne & Wear, UK.
Posts: 8,171
Default Re: Fake transistors.

Capacitors (poly) from RS used in an aircraft safety system that had high dissipation / tempco factors and had virtually the same colour case.
Fortunately our stock system was pants, so we were able to sort out the bad devices.
We were the only company that had complained

Ed
Ed_Dinning is offline  
Old 16th Jan 2022, 6:02 pm   #24
Techman
Dekatron
 
Techman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Lincolnshire, UK.
Posts: 4,985
Default Re: Fake transistors.

All MRF transistors are fake now and have been for years, so don't waste your time with them. I remember someone I know bringing me this unit for repair to fit two new MRFxxx transistors in and he brought along the 'new' replacements in their sealed packages that he'd just sent off for 'on-line'. I took one look at them and a quick meter test proved they weren't even remotely what they said they were - I even blew one up in circuit in front of him to prove the point. He got an instant refund from the supplier - they know they're fakes and won't work, they just rely on the fact that most people that buy them will be non-skilled and think that they just fitted them incorrectly or that there was actually another fault causing the failure. Also, a lot of people will see a hard to come by device at a bargain price and buy a few to put into stock, so it could be years later (or even never) when they come to use one and by that time it's too late do anything about it. These suppliers of fakes nearly always give instant refunds because they know they're selling fakes, but that doesn't compensate for the wasted time and possible damage caused to equipment.

Capstan transistors - the much more common 'slang' term is 'pill', because they look like what you'd take after a meal with a glass of water (with the legs cut off, of course), I think it may possibly be an American term that's caught on across Europe.
Techman is offline  
Old 16th Jan 2022, 6:42 pm   #25
CambridgeWorks
Nonode
 
CambridgeWorks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Spalding, Peterborough, Cambridgeshire, UK.
Posts: 2,851
Default Re: Fake transistors.

My MRF transistors are definitely not fake!
Mind you, they are not common ham radio types either.
Rob
__________________
Apprehension creeping like a tube train up your spine - Cymbaline. Film More soundtrack - Pink Floyd
CambridgeWorks is online now  
Old 16th Jan 2022, 10:03 pm   #26
bigfathairyvika
Hexode
 
bigfathairyvika's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Cambridge, Cambridgeshire, UK.
Posts: 489
Default Re: Fake transistors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Techman View Post
All MRF transistors are fake now and have been for years, so don't waste your time with them. e.
I think you need to phone NXP Semiconductors urgently and ask them to cease production then....
bigfathairyvika is offline  
Old 22nd Jan 2022, 5:19 am   #27
Stylo N M
Heptode
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Derby DE1, Derbyshire, UK.
Posts: 626
Default Re: Fake transistors.

Hi,

In reference to post #16 Yes many years ago I had some TBA800's from Cricklewood Electronics, that I assumed must have been fake, because out of six IC's and six attempts I never had a single one working! All older stock that i had already got worked fine.

I always assumed that they were a reputable company, and that this was just something that must have slipped through the net at the time. That experience has NOT in any way put me off from ordering from them again, they obviously must of been unaware of it at the time, and maybe I should have said something, but unfortunately I'm guilty of not doing so

Paul.
Stylo N M is offline  
Old 22nd Jan 2022, 7:21 pm   #28
bigfathairyvika
Hexode
 
bigfathairyvika's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Cambridge, Cambridgeshire, UK.
Posts: 489
Default Re: Fake transistors.

I myself wouldn't consider Cricklewood a supplier that would not stock fake/counterfeit parts. But they
would not do so knowingly.
They do advertise as 'new' plenty of components that are no longer produced as they do source from China.
They cannot provide traceability for parts.
But they do go out of their way to help with equivalent parts.
bigfathairyvika is offline  
Old 29th Jan 2022, 6:17 pm   #29
commie1
Triode
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Buckley, Clwyd, Wales, UK.
Posts: 32
Default Re: Fake transistors.

After some checking, it becomes easy to spot a fake but beware some sellers, take a picture(s) of a real transistor but go on to sell fakes, be careful.
commie1 is offline  
Old 5th Feb 2022, 11:36 pm   #30
commie1
Triode
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Buckley, Clwyd, Wales, UK.
Posts: 32
Default Re: Fake transistors.

A couple of years ago, I ordered some 2N3866A from eBay and I am currently designing an HF transceiver for the 80, 40 and 20m bands and I found what I thought to be fakes to be working very well in my HF amp. Whilst these Chinese 2N3866A transistors are not American grade they do seem to be better than non fake 2N2219A (by Central semi's USA), of course the 2N3866 USA made are better but more expensive then the 2N2219a. However, the 2SC1969 Chinese eBay transistors are neither use nor ornament to anyone.



Just to round off, the Farnell/CPC 2N2219A by Multicomp(Taiwan), are just as good as 2N2219A Central semi's USA.
commie1 is offline  
Old 8th Feb 2022, 2:24 am   #31
Maarten
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Haarlem, Netherlands
Posts: 4,184
Default Re: Fake transistors.

I think Multicomp is a relabeler, not a manufacturer.
Maarten is online now  
Old 8th Feb 2022, 8:21 am   #32
kalee20
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Lynton, N. Devon, UK.
Posts: 7,061
Default Re: Fake transistors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigfathairyvika View Post
Has anyone ever bought a fake/counterfeit component from a reputable source? Eg: RS , Mouser, Farnell, Digikey etc... not Ebay or Someblokesellstufffromhome Components Ltd.

I would say probably not.
But it has happened.

Dodgy customer places a large order for parts from reputable supplier. Receives them.

Keeps them a few weeks, then contacts reputable supplier asking if he can return them for credit as over-ordered, less an admin/restocking fee, against the original delivery note number. Reputable supplier says yes of course.

But dodgy customer doesn't return the parts he's bought, instead he sends counterfeits. So reputable supplier now has counterfeit parts in their stores.

And dodgy customer now has swapped counterfeit parts for genuine items, for the cost of the restocking fee - so he can now sell genuine parts for good money.
kalee20 is online now  
Old 8th Feb 2022, 3:01 pm   #33
Maarten
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Haarlem, Netherlands
Posts: 4,184
Default Re: Fake transistors.

I'd think that isn't really a viable business model for said dodgy customer. Maybe he can get away with it once or twice, but surely it would be noticed sooner or later.
Maarten is online now  
Old 8th Feb 2022, 3:20 pm   #34
SiriusHardware
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Newcastle, Tyne and Wear, UK.
Posts: 11,484
Default Re: Fake transistors.

With regard to RF output transistors and 2SC1969s in particular I've seen people mention that there are non-original ones made or supplied by 'Eleflow' which actually work OK. I've had no experience of these myself.

A while ago I bought a small batch of 27MHz RF output transistors (2SC2078, 2SC1909, 2SC2166, 2SC1969) from Donberg over in Eire - I had no specific need for one at the time, just a case of stocking up while they were still available from somewhere. I have no idea whether any of that batch are viable RF devices. Time will tell.
SiriusHardware is online now  
Old 8th Feb 2022, 7:40 pm   #35
mickm3for
Heptode
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Chatham, Kent, UK.
Posts: 947
Default Re: Fake transistors.

Hi Eleflow web site is not active ?. I have used RF transistors from them and are ok but it seams not trading anymore Mick
Jst checked and the domain name is for sale

Last edited by mickm3for; 8th Feb 2022 at 7:42 pm. Reason: mised part out
mickm3for is offline  
Old 8th Feb 2022, 11:04 pm   #36
SiriusHardware
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Newcastle, Tyne and Wear, UK.
Posts: 11,484
Default Re: Fake transistors.

Is this the one you mean?

http://www.eleflow.tech/
SiriusHardware is online now  
Old 9th Feb 2022, 2:11 am   #37
mickm3for
Heptode
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Chatham, Kent, UK.
Posts: 947
Default Re: Fake transistors.

Hi just shows cant trust Google the bookmark took me to this page. Thanks now updated \\mick
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	the bookmark took me to this .JPG
Views:	46
Size:	42.9 KB
ID:	251480  
mickm3for is offline  
Old 9th Feb 2022, 2:46 am   #38
mickm3for
Heptode
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Chatham, Kent, UK.
Posts: 947
Default Re: Fake transistors.

Hi no way of buying from them i can see web page not updated since 2005.
guys on dx forum say came and went ebay seller has some not listed on ebay
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	eleflo.JPG
Views:	41
Size:	16.8 KB
ID:	251481  
mickm3for is offline  
Old 9th Feb 2022, 2:26 pm   #39
SiriusHardware
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Newcastle, Tyne and Wear, UK.
Posts: 11,484
Default Re: Fake transistors.

That webpage was updated a bit more recently than 2005 (look at some of the other pages). However it doesn't seem to have showed any sign of activity since about 2013. A great shame. Maybe their 'authorised seller' does still have some stock, may be worth asking.

There is also plenty of contact info on the website and a 'payment and shipping' tab on the site - I would suggest trying to contact them first though.

Then again, most of the other tabs go through to the defunct eleflow.com site when clicked on - odd that the 'payments' tab is the one bit which still appears functional. My Spidey-Sense is tingling...

Last edited by SiriusHardware; 9th Feb 2022 at 2:31 pm.
SiriusHardware is online now  
Old 9th Feb 2022, 4:15 pm   #40
mickm3for
Heptode
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Chatham, Kent, UK.
Posts: 947
Default Re: Fake transistors.

Hi A guy in the UK .... Weazle66 keeps showing up as distributor...and I found him as a seller on Ebay....but when I click to follow his link... he has NO PRODUCTS for sale. But if you contact him he has some for sale but not listed on ebay Its a shame they no longer sell RF transistors. I got quite excited when i saw the list of transistors they had but people are in the minority wanting them i suppose Mick

Last edited by mickm3for; 9th Feb 2022 at 4:21 pm.
mickm3for is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 9:40 pm.


All information and advice on this forum is subject to the WARNING AND DISCLAIMER located at https://www.vintage-radio.net/rules.html.
Failure to heed this warning may result in death or serious injury to yourself and/or others.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2002 - 2023, Paul Stenning.