Can anyone identify/date/tell me more about this old electric wall heater?

[ACSlack]

I have this electric wall heater, brand "Walglow". Its label says 200/210V. It is wired in and does work, not that I use it - and to me knowledge it has not been used during the time my family have had this house (since 1966 I believe). Electrical Times vol 106 Thursday November 16 1944 says Walglow fires are made by Walsall Conduits Ltd, who are in Grace's Guide as bought by G.E.C. in 1968. https://www.gracesguide.co.uk/Walsall_Conduits. Stylistically I would guess maybe 1950s but it's quite angular, and I can't find anything quite like it. The only other Walglow fire mention I can find is that there is a (different) one in the Science Museum collection.

I've tried but failed to work out when 210V AC would have been in use here (West Yorkshire, Holmfirth, nr Huddersfield), and I don't know what if any modification needs to have been made (nor whether it has been) to make it safe, though one would hope the electrician who rewired the house in 1989 would have checked!

Any ideas?

thank you in advance

Andrew

[Rubberfingers]

The fireguard regulations changed in 1952, to require a "dress guard" to be fitted, amongst other requirements. This doesn't look compliant, so probably predates this

[paulsherwin]

It appears to be 1930s. There was a big push towards domestic electrification then - previously most places had only used electricity for electric light. The voltage predates the rollout of the postwar National Grid, though some places were still using strange local voltages into the 1970s.

I don't think there's any way this fire can be used safely with modern supplies. Quite apart from the incorrect voltage, the heating elements are exposed and can easily be touched by a finger, a metal utensil or an item of clothing. If the house was rewired to regulations in 1989, the electrician almost certainly disconnected it if that hadn't been done already.

[Lucien Nunes]

I only have one reference immediately to hand re. voltage in your area. In 1936, Holmfirth Urban District Council were supplying 230V, while Huddersfield (where it might have been bought?) had both 200 and 230V. Heating appliances are normally designed to deliver rated power at the highest stated voltage. Because element power depends on the square of the voltage, a 210V heater connected to 230V will dissipate (230/210)²-1 = 20% excess heat and get about 20% hotter than it should, although there is usually a good allowance for voltage tolerance and not much here that would be harmed.

However, it is also entirely possible that 230V elements have been fitted, either when it was moved to the present location, or during a voltage changeover. If this was done by the electricity company they should have overstamped the rating plate. Alternatively they might have considered that any element within 20V of the 230V supply was unlikely to be harmed and let it pass.

Many electricians take minimal interest in the equipment connected to the installation. They provide the point, but what happens after that is by the bye. A young electrician in 1989 might not have been aware that there had ever been other voltages in use.

Of more concern today would be lack of guarding, which people tend to take for granted due to experience with modern appliances, and the cracks in the fireclay element trays. For it to be even vaguely safe against direct contact with the cold element, it ought to be protected by a 30mA RCD or RCBO, and switched off using a double-pole switch with 3mm contact separation when unsupervised / not in use. Absent suitable guarding, there is a strong argument for disconnecting such heaters in family homes.

As for date, I might have a catalogue that lists it. I would not be surprised to find it was late pre-war.

[hamid_1]

Sometimes these old appliances have patent numbers on them, or a notice such as "Conforms to British Standard xxxx". This can give some idea of the date of production. In this case there don't seem to be any, unless there's another label somewhere else. The absence of any standards compliance suggests it's an early model.

When was the house built? If it was the 1930s, it could well have been installed then, as a selling point. Electric heating was seen as futuristic and modern. Unlike traditional coal fires, electric fires produce no smoke or ash, require virtually no maintenance and can be switched on or off instantly at any time of day or night. All of this would have sounded amazing back then.

Safety standards have been updated many times over the years. This would not have complied with the standards in force in 1989, let alone today. However, it's not actually illegal to have or even use an old electric fire like this in your own home. There are risks of fire / burns / electric shock if people or objects come into contact with the heating element. These things are OK to use if you are careful, but visitors and especially inquisitive children may not be aware of the hazards. If you are concerned, disconnect it and keep it as a decorative piece. Bear in mind that even modern electric heaters have risks, too. There are often warnings such as "Do Not Cover".

[ACSlack]

Thank you all for the info. My best guess/hope was that the elements would have been replaced, if only because they actually turn on and it is still wired in! I definitely don't use it though, and neither did my Aunt who rented the house from 66 and owned it from 73. The gaps are such that you could probably get an elbow through let alone a finger!

The pre-1952 limit regulations wise is really handy, as is the info about 1936, maybe it was a 200V supply.

If you can find a catalogue or any more information I would really love that.

Since it's mounted in a piece of hardboard, would I be right in assuming there's a reasonable chance that could have asbestos? it's in good condition, fortunately. There were 1930s thermoplastic tiles elsewhere in the house and they didn't contain asbestos, so I might get lucky!

[ACSlack]

I will be happier when it is disconnected. As for the house, it's a tad earlier - 1780 for that bit! I do know it changed hands in 1920, 1921 and 1925, not sure when else.

I cannot find any other labels.

[emeritus]

While not applicable to the presrnt case, if there is no guard issue, a two-element 200V heater could be used at reduced power on 240V by connecting the elements in series. Many years ago, when my late mother found that using a single 1kW bar of her Belling electric fire provided too much heat for the small room where she did her sewing, I strapped a silicon diode across the ON/OFF switch of one of the elements to provide a 500W setting with that switch in the OFF position. It glowed a duller orange than on full power but was readily visible, and the coal effect indicated that it was plugged in and switched on anyway.

[ACSlack]

One further bit of information. The electric doorbell is a 1930s one, which fits with electrics being fitted then, which would make sense at the same time as the fire.

[paulsherwin]

Asbestos is unlikely in something like this, but certainly not impossible.

[bionicmerlin]

I have got a stand-alone fire that uses similar elements. It gets frequent use as it’s got sentimental value. As it’s plugged on it’s protected by a rcd and no young children or pets get near it. I think yours would work on 230- 240 volts but if you ever went that route the elements life may be reduced and check they don’t sag after use .
I can remember replacing these elements in the past . Just the element not the whole block. Infact I still keep a spare for my heater.
Almost all things we use in our hobbies don’t comply with modern regulations but we try to use common sense. Then again I would never use a modern plastic electric heater as I have seen them catch fire . Andy

[ACSlack]

Please do let me know if you find a catalogue!

[The Philpott]

...It's mounted in hardboard..? Has it been used to block off an old fireplace, hence the staining (possibly acid from the soot?)

The art-deco style suggests 1927 to 1932 to me, and it's a very striking piece. If it were mine i would disconnect it for sure, but i don't think i would risk polishing...and possibly ruining it from an aesthetic point of view.

The cracked fireclay suggests it might have been relocated at some point...? I think this heater must be rather rare by now.

Those toggle switches could be wired to switch a remote device on such as a lamp on the mantelpiece, but i would make it a reasonably low voltage.

Dave

[hamid_1]

I wondered about the broken fireclay element support. Perhaps the original 210v element was used on 240v for too long and it overheated and cracked? Did an object hit it? Or maybe it's just due to old age. I don't suppose we will ever know for sure.

Electrical shops used to sell replacement elements for these heaters as well as for kettles, toasters and irons. Now these are throwaway items. It seems such a shame. Things like this heater have already lasted a lifetime and could be kept going pretty much forever. I appreciate you may not want to use it, though. I have a 1920s-1930s copper bowl heater which looks stylish and still works, but is just being kept as an ornament. Some people have converted them into lamps, but I prefer to keep it original - there are probably not many original ones left.

[Cathovisor]

Originally Posted by paulsherwin

Asbestos is unlikely in something like this, but certainly not impossible.

From my experience with many a vintage Belling electric fire, the usual places you encounter asbestos are in pads mechanically/thermally insulating the fireclay formers from the metal casting and sometimes in the internal wiring to the heat control switches, it being "Lewbestos" or similar. Some Bellings simply had self-supporting steel wire in that role (e.g. the "Empire" fire).

[Cathovisor]

Originally Posted by hamid_1

Electrical shops used to sell replacement elements for these heaters as well as for kettles, toasters and irons. Now these are throwaway items. It seems such a shame. Things like this heater have already lasted a lifetime and could be kept going pretty much forever. I appreciate you may not want to use it, though. I have a 1920s-1930s copper bowl heater which looks stylish and still works, but is just being kept as an ornament. Some people have converted them into lamps, but I prefer to keep it original - there are probably not many original ones left.

I have de-converted a lamp back into a fire...! An Art Deco Belling "Cubic" in single-tone blue. See https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...07&postcount=1 for an example.

[ACSlack]

Originally Posted by The Philpott

...It's mounted in hardboard..? Has it been used to block off an old fireplace, hence the staining (possibly acid from the soot?)

The art-deco style suggests 1927 to 1932 to me, and it's a very striking piece. If it were mine i would disconnect it for sure, but i don't think i would risk polishing...and possibly ruining it from an aesthetic point of view.

The cracked fireclay suggests it might have been relocated at some point...? I think this heater must be rather rare by now.

Those toggle switches could be wired to switch a remote device on such as a lamp on the mantelpiece, but i would make it a reasonably low voltage.

Dave

Thanks - it is blocking off an old fireplace, yes. The back is just sitting in the cavity. It does appear to be hardboard, though it could be ply or some other material.

I'm not sure what cracked fireclay you are referring to, sorry ? I'm not sure what in the images would be fireclay, nor where there's a crack.

I'm sure it must be pretty rare! It's certainly not going in a bin or anything. It is either going to stay there, possibly with a replaced backing board or at least some repaint on the board, or I would find it a museum!

[ACSlack]

Originally Posted by hamid_1

I wondered about the broken fireclay element support. Perhaps the original 210v element was used on 240v for too long and it overheated and cracked? Did an object hit it? Or maybe it's just due to old age. I don't suppose we will ever know for sure.

Electrical shops used to sell replacement elements for these heaters as well as for kettles, toasters and irons. Now these are throwaway items. It seems such a shame. Things like this heater have already lasted a lifetime and could be kept going pretty much forever. I appreciate you may not want to use it, though. I have a 1920s-1930s copper bowl heater which looks stylish and still works, but is just being kept as an ornament. Some people have converted them into lamps, but I prefer to keep it original - there are probably not many original ones left.

Sorry if I'm being dim. I don't know what people are referring to with this - could you possibly point it out on the image?

[ACSlack]

Sorry - I see it now. I didn't realise that was ceramic, and I'd not even realised it was broken I think I just thought it was that shape. Goodness knows how long ago it might have broken. I'll see if I have any older photos but not hugely optimistic.

Thanks all

[ACSlack]

Originally Posted by Cathovisor

I have de-converted a lamp back into a fire...! An Art Deco Belling "Cubic" in single-tone blue. See https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...07&postcount=1 for an example.

That's gorgeous!