Military wire recorder? - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

RichardGM · 30th Jun 2022, 7:27 pm

This is another of the items in my friend's loft that were acquired by her late husband. The label is hard to read and worse at the reduced resolution required for posting here. I think it says
SOUND RECORDER
TYPE 4183

I think it may be a wire recorder, with the two metal cans containing recording wire, but I tried to open one and couldn't manage as it seemed to be rusted shut, which casts doubt on the state of the wire inside, if indeed that is what it contains.

Anyone know anything about it?

Should I put it in the Offered section?

60 oldjohn · 30th Jun 2022, 9:02 pm

I think it is one of these from WWll. I were once told Aircraft would record a morse message and transmit it back to base at maybe 3x speed to defeat German DF. Others may know different.
Put some PlusGass on the hinge and threads may take a few days of treatment but don't force an damage the hinge.

After thought, have you moved the Time Indicator? it engages with the internal spools.

John.

regenfreak · 30th Jun 2022, 9:23 pm

The way it works is very interesting. I remember watching this video by Glasslinger a while back:

https://youtu.be/wAc241Bzx9k

RichardGM · 30th Jun 2022, 9:40 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by 60 oldjohn

I think it is one of these from WWll. I were once told Aircraft would record a morse message and transmit it back to base at maybe 3x speed to defeat German DF. Others may know different.
Put some PlusGass on the hinge and threads may take a few days of treatment but don't force an damage the hinge.

After thought, have you moved the Time Indicator? it engages with the internal spools.

John.

Apart from trying (not very had) and failing to open one of the cans, I haven't done anything with it. I'll have another look next time I visit.

brenellic2000 · 1st Jul 2022, 6:44 am

It's a Boosey & Hawkes 'Wirek' Type 49 airborne recorder; the 4183 was a 'crash-proofed- variant.

Craig Sawyers · 1st Jul 2022, 8:31 am

Boosey & Hawkes as in musical instrument makers? Presumably like many companies during WW2 they turned their skills to making product to support the war effort.

Craig

60 oldjohn · 1st Jul 2022, 9:05 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig Sawyers

Boosey & Hawkes as in musical instrument makers? Presumably like many companies during WW2 they turned their skills to making product to support the war effort.

Craig

I have two Boosey & Hawkes reels of wire with my KB EWR60 wire recorder from 1949. I wonder if they were war surplus or did they continue making it after the war?

John.

Ted Kendall · 1st Jul 2022, 9:10 am

Boosey and Hawkes continued to make wire recorders into the 1950s, culminating in a multi-format machine. I won one on an auction site but it went astray, and I've never seen another. B&H's last foray in the field was a battery tape recorder with a wind-up motor, which has a layout like the later Gramdeck.

turretslug · 1st Jul 2022, 9:31 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig Sawyers

Boosey & Hawkes as in musical instrument makers? Presumably like many companies during WW2 they turned their skills to making product to support the war effort.

Craig

Not just a WW2 trend- on the subject of musician gear, check Moog's diversity of interest!

Colin

DMcMahon · 1st Jul 2022, 9:34 am

There is quite a lot of information on Boosey & Hawkes and their Wirek recorders in Barry's excellent book "A guide to British Tape Recorders".

David

brenellic2000 · 1st Jul 2022, 10:55 am

Thanks David! Like most 'allied' wire recorders of that period (1930s-1950s) these were based on American designs - in B&H's case, mostly Armor... who went to town claiming patent infringements from every Tom, Dick and Harriett... until most ignored them!

The Type 49 was developed with Hawker Siddeley for flight testing (data/voice) c1950/51; the 4185 appears to differ by being bolted to the aircraft and thus more likely to survive a crash!

Alas Wirek's records were destroyed in a factory fire.

RichardGM · 2nd Jul 2022, 9:55 am

Thanks to all for the info. When I'm next up in my friend's loft I'll have a bit more of a look, to see what sort of state it's in. If it's not a complete wreck I'll put it in the Offered section with a link to this thread.

30th Jun 2022, 7:27 pm	#1
RichardGM Pentode Join Date: Mar 2022 Location: Harrow, Middlesex, UK. Posts: 232	Military wire recorder? This is another of the items in my friend's loft that were acquired by her late husband. The label is hard to read and worse at the reduced resolution required for posting here. I think it says SOUND RECORDER TYPE 4183 I think it may be a wire recorder, with the two metal cans containing recording wire, but I tried to open one and couldn't manage as it seemed to be rusted shut, which casts doubt on the state of the wire inside, if indeed that is what it contains. Anyone know anything about it? Should I put it in the Offered section? Attached Thumbnails

30th Jun 2022, 9:02 pm	#2
60 oldjohn Dekatron Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 3,988	Re: Military wire recorder? I think it is one of these from WWll. I were once told Aircraft would record a morse message and transmit it back to base at maybe 3x speed to defeat German DF. Others may know different. Put some PlusGass on the hinge and threads may take a few days of treatment but don't force an damage the hinge. After thought, have you moved the Time Indicator? it engages with the internal spools. John. Attached Thumbnails __________________ My favourite text message "I'll be there in five minutes, if not read again"

30th Jun 2022, 9:23 pm	#3
regenfreak Heptode Join Date: Nov 2018 Location: London SW16, UK. Posts: 655	Re: Military wire recorder? The way it works is very interesting. I remember watching this video by Glasslinger a while back: https://youtu.be/wAc241Bzx9k

1st Jul 2022, 6:44 am	#5
brenellic2000 Octode Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rye, East Sussex, UK. Posts: 1,647	Re: Military wire recorder? It's a Boosey & Hawkes 'Wirek' Type 49 airborne recorder; the 4183 was a 'crash-proofed- variant.

1st Jul 2022, 8:31 am	#6
Craig Sawyers Dekatron Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Oxford, UK. Posts: 4,993	Re: Military wire recorder? Boosey & Hawkes as in musical instrument makers? Presumably like many companies during WW2 they turned their skills to making product to support the war effort. Craig __________________ Doomed for a certain term to walk the night

1st Jul 2022, 9:10 am	#8
Ted Kendall Dekatron Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Kington, Herefordshire, UK. Posts: 3,675	Re: Military wire recorder? Boosey and Hawkes continued to make wire recorders into the 1950s, culminating in a multi-format machine. I won one on an auction site but it went astray, and I've never seen another. B&H's last foray in the field was a battery tape recorder with a wind-up motor, which has a layout like the later Gramdeck.

1st Jul 2022, 9:34 am	#10
DMcMahon Dekatron Join Date: Apr 2019 Location: Worthing, West Sussex, UK. Posts: 6,604	Re: Military wire recorder? There is quite a lot of information on Boosey & Hawkes and their Wirek recorders in Barry's excellent book "A guide to British Tape Recorders". David

1st Jul 2022, 10:55 am	#11
brenellic2000 Octode Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rye, East Sussex, UK. Posts: 1,647	Re: Military wire recorder? Thanks David! Like most 'allied' wire recorders of that period (1930s-1950s) these were based on American designs - in B&H's case, mostly Armor... who went to town claiming patent infringements from every Tom, Dick and Harriett... until most ignored them! The Type 49 was developed with Hawker Siddeley for flight testing (data/voice) c1950/51; the 4185 appears to differ by being bolted to the aircraft and thus more likely to survive a crash! Alas Wirek's records were destroyed in a factory fire.

2nd Jul 2022, 9:55 am	#12
RichardGM Pentode Join Date: Mar 2022 Location: Harrow, Middlesex, UK. Posts: 232	Re: Military wire recorder? Thanks to all for the info. When I'm next up in my friend's loft I'll have a bit more of a look, to see what sort of state it's in. If it's not a complete wreck I'll put it in the Offered section with a link to this thread.