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Vintage Tape (Audio), Cassette, Wire and Magnetic Disc Recorders and Players Open-reel tape recorders, cassette recorders, 8-track players etc.

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Old 22nd Jun 2022, 12:10 pm   #1
Martin Bush
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Default Tape creasing cause

Hi all

I have just bought some used TDK AD cassettes from ebay - they were cheap so I don't have any complaints.

However I have observed that the tape is lightly but very neatly creased. The creases run edge to edge, so not railroading.

I was wondering what might have caused this - my first thoughts are the capstan on whatever machine they were played in. But why would there be so many creases.

I will give the tapes a spin later to see what effect this has on sound.

Why buy old casssettes you may ask? I happen to like the design of the inlays and cassette shells. I could dismantle the shells and put some new tape in of course.

Martin
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Old 22nd Jun 2022, 12:47 pm   #2
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Default Re: Tape creasing cause

Capstan worn / needs cleaning and probably aggravated by to much stiction in the take up reel clutch.
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Old 22nd Jun 2022, 1:17 pm   #3
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Default Re: Tape creasing cause

Edge to edge creasing implies they might have been left in a deck with the pinch engaged but power off. Typically in a car or home computer or dictation-type recorder.
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Old 22nd Jun 2022, 2:48 pm   #4
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Default Re: Tape creasing cause

Nick's explanation makes sense to me. It may or may not be the cause, but it feels right. I think they may have been left in a car deck.

As I say, I can put new tape in as the shells and cards are nice. I even like much of the music that's recorded on the tapes, although that will be going in due course.

As an aside, I have been investigating second hand blanks just to add a bit of variety to my collection. This experience tells me not to pay too much unless the seller checks and reports on the state of the tape.
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Old 22nd Jun 2022, 2:51 pm   #5
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Default Re: Tape creasing cause

Better car machines disengaged the pinch roller and/or ejected the tape when power was removed, but many didn't.

I've found a lot of halfway decent used and new blanks in charity shops recently, typically for 20p to 50p.
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Old 22nd Jun 2022, 2:57 pm   #6
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Default Re: Tape creasing cause

I've not had quite the same luck recently, but I live in hope

I will be interested to hear what these tapes sound like in my Yamaha deck. Will the creases lead to drop outs I wonder?
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Old 22nd Jun 2022, 3:14 pm   #7
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Default Re: Tape creasing cause

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Bush View Post
Will the creases lead to drop outs I wonder?
Almost certainly they will, I'm afraid. But whether that's a big problem depends on what you're listening to and how fussy you're being.
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Old 22nd Jun 2022, 4:07 pm   #8
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Default Re: Tape creasing cause

Coincidentally I compile music and title the tapes 'Dropout City', but thats more a joke than the sound I desire.

Id be more concerned if the creases damaged the heads to be honest.
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Old 22nd Jun 2022, 4:11 pm   #9
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Default Re: Tape creasing cause

I think "damage" won't happen, but they might shed oxide and mean that the machine needs more frequent cleaning, I suppose.
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Old 23rd Jun 2022, 11:16 am   #10
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Default Re: Tape creasing cause

I recently bought a pack of usually excellent quality metal tapes NOS, only to find that around half had side to side straight creases. It was suggested to me that the cause was due to sitting in storage for many years, being wound tightly, whereby the hub clamp had made an indent, rippling from inner to outer. I find this explanation pretty plausible. Back in cassette heyday, people would typically use a tape within a handful of yrs from it leaving the factory, whereas NOS tapes today might have been sitting for 25+ years.
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Old 23rd Jun 2022, 12:32 pm   #11
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Default Re: Tape creasing cause

Are the creases through the whole tape or only in one location?
If they're right the way through, that suggests that what knobtwiddler said has happened, i.e.e. the indentation from the hub, I have seen that on reel to reels. Usually the thicker leader tape helps protect the tape though. Plus, I am surprised as TDK always prided themselves on the uniformity of their hubs.

If the damage is only near the start of a side, that suggests damage by a poor deck transport.
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Old 23rd Jun 2022, 2:06 pm   #12
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Default Re: Tape creasing cause

This is an interesting one.

I gave one of the tapes a play last night and it sounded fine. It may have helped that I like the music on the tape, and that it must have been reasonably well recorded, but I couldn't hear any dropouts.

I didn't stop the tape part way through to see if it was affected further in, but I do know that the creases are at either end. Now I think about the posts by Ben and Knobtwiddler I think that the hub theory may be correct.

The distance between some of the creases is about the width of the pressure pad (I made this observation as I hand wound the tape to inspect it), and that isn't so far off the dimensions of the hub clamp I suppose. The leader tape doesn't look affected.

As I say, the tape plays and sounds fine.

Martin
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Old 23rd Jun 2022, 4:22 pm   #13
knobtwiddler
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Default Re: Tape creasing cause

I can't state this categorically, but I suspect that a few plays might have 'ironed' out the creases in one or two of my tapes. My main playback machine has high tape tension, and I can well imagine that it keeps the tape pretty flat between capstans. The only way to test this theory will be to dig out a creased one, play it a few times and go back to a marked spot.

One wonders if 90-degreee hub creases are an area where a dual capstan machine has advantages!

One thing that will certainly provoke drop outs is under-biasing. If your head is worn, you might need to reduce bias to get decent HF extension. This will be at the price of midrange distortion and potential drop outs.
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