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Old 12th Apr 2022, 7:45 pm   #1
G6Tanuki
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Default BT phone-booth power supplies?

Locally, there's an old ex-BT phone-booth. I guess it was one of those where someone-in-the-community paid £1 to BT to take it over. The telephonic-instruments have long-since gone, as have all the glass panels; red-painted hanging-baskets with flowers are now attached to the exterior.

But - if you look inside, and up - there's a rectangular luminaire-fitment in the top of the booth - and the two ends of it are showing the dull orange glow of a fluorescent-tube-whose-starter-has-stuck-in-permanent-heat-mode.

Which makes me wonder:

[1]Just how long has this phone-booth's internal illumination been stuck like this.?.

[2]When was it last subjected to any sort of safety-inspection/testing.;?.

[3]Is there any kind of public-liability insurance needed ny people who take-on old phone-booths which remain connected to the mains and which could - years later - pose an electrocution-hazard//?\\

[4]Who is paying for the Kilowatt Hours this is consuming--?--
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Old 12th Apr 2022, 8:17 pm   #2
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Default Re: BT phone-booth power supplies?

I'm surprised it's still powered up. I think they got their power from the street lighting circuit.
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Old 12th Apr 2022, 8:35 pm   #3
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Default Re: BT phone-booth power supplies?

I'm surprised it's still getting power too.

Just how was power to such 'street-utility furniture' charged for? It clearly wouldn't make sense to have individual meters [with the associated cost of sending a meter-reader out every few months to record the consumption of three-and-sixpence of electricity]. Was there some sort of 'utility rate' charged on the basis of predicted, consistent load? I guess that would have made sense for street-lights, 'Keep Left' bollards, Belisha Beacons etc...

But who's been paying for this phone-booth's power-consumption for the last couple of decades?
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Old 12th Apr 2022, 8:40 pm   #4
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Lightbulb Re: BT phone-booth power supplies?

The mains supply for these kiosks was unmetered & originally provided for an incandescent BC light bulb switched via a Venner time switch. Looks like this kiosk was upgraded to a CFC fitting whilst still owned by BT.

Mains supply would be derived from nearest mains cable which could be overhead or UG depending upon locality.

I would assume that GPO > BT were originally charged direct but have since transferred billing responsibility to local authority who would already be paying for street lighting leccy based on a fixed amount for each light.

Good point about electrical testing ... might pay to have a word with the local council to see if they can shed any light (s'cuse the pun) on this one.

Makes you wonder if the leccy could be diverted to an emergency phone charger point for use by those not fortunate enough to have a home.

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Old 12th Apr 2022, 8:48 pm   #5
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Default Re: BT phone-booth power supplies?

An interesting point. Many of the older boxes this way are long out of use. In our own village it's one of the newer (relatively) stainless and glass boxes. Now a book exchange, haven't seen if it's still lit. In a couple of nearby villages they have older 'red telephone boxes' which are either book exchanges or defibrillators. I assume the defibs have a power supply to keep them charged too. Close by is an oddball box. One of the triangular ones without a door, and it had an actual service for years way after others did, but no phone now. No idea if its lit anymore.
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Old 12th Apr 2022, 9:35 pm   #6
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Default Re: BT phone-booth power supplies?

I'll be having a chat with the local Town Council in the next few days to see if they can identify who is paying the bill/responsible-for-safety-testing.

My #1 consideration being that I pay murderous amounts of Council Tax and so see it as my civic duty to miinimise any and all 'loads' - however small - on the parish/towen/county-Council's coffers.
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Last edited by Cobaltblue; 12th Apr 2022 at 9:42 pm. Reason: Automotive removed
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Old 13th Apr 2022, 3:42 pm   #7
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Default Re: BT phone-booth power supplies?

As an alternative how about popping down with your tool bag and fit a LED tube unit in its place.
Consumption reduced, and it will look good at night.
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Old 13th Apr 2022, 8:38 pm   #8
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Default Re: BT phone-booth power supplies?

Weren't these powered from the phone line?
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Old 13th Apr 2022, 8:57 pm   #9
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Default Re: BT phone-booth power supplies?

I know of at least one that was powered from the mains. I would also confirm that it was connected in parallel with the street light next to it - or rather the street light was connected in parallel with the 'phone box, as the 'phone box was there first. I know this because we had a problem with damage to the underground cable, which took out power to both of the above. I would say, however, that I was informed by a telephone engineer that the model of 'phone used also required mains power to operate.

Needless to say, there is no longer a 'phone present - so next time I'm there after dark, I'll check whether it's still lit, though it may be that the light was out of action even before the 'phone was removed.
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Old 13th Apr 2022, 9:13 pm   #10
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Default Re: BT phone-booth power supplies?

Interesting stuff, thanks
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Old 14th Apr 2022, 9:26 am   #11
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Default Re: BT phone-booth power supplies?

My last house had a phone box across the road with a light in it. My incoming mains cable had been untidily jointed at the eaves and the spliced cable sent over the road to a pole beside the phone box. I'd complained for ages about the joint to no avail, but one day they removed the phone box. I then tried to have the cable remved, but was told it also powered the street light. Although it didn't (during a power cut the light stayed on) the cable stayed.
So to answer the OP question the supply is unmetered.
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Old 14th Apr 2022, 8:41 pm   #12
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Default Re: BT phone-booth power supplies?

Many later telephone kiosks used a bulkhead light that contained one or more 8 watt 300mm fluorescent lamps. The light was sometimes lit 24/7, sometimes controlled by a photocell.

The electricity supply was not normally metered, it was like a street lighting supply, charged for by knowledge of wattage and of operating hours.
Paid for by post office telephones, later by BT. In the absence of a mains electricity supply, solar was sometimes used, this being an early application of solar power.

I suspect that BT are still paying a flat rate annual charge for this kiosk, having forgotten to ask for it to be disconnected. Or it might be a loss for power company who WERE asked to disconnect but failed to do so.
Possibly paid for by the local authority.

Somewhere in or adjacent to the kiosk there should be a small type service cut out, rated for up to 20 amps but probably fitted with a BS 88 type 6 amp fuse. Usually a one amp or two amp fuse in the light fitting, BS 1362 type.
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Old 14th Apr 2022, 10:33 pm   #13
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Default Re: BT phone-booth power supplies?

Quote:
Originally Posted by G6Tanuki View Post
I'll be having a chat with the local Town Council in the next few days to see if they can identify who is paying the bill/responsible-for-safety-testing...
I expect that finding the answer to your question would use a good many valuable hours of a council employee's time, time which would likely otherwise be spent on a task which was worth much more then the £10 (ish - assuming 8W and the current average price of electricity) a year energy cost for the light in the phonebox. If you are intent on not seeing the council's resources squandered then it's probably best not to bother them with this trivial issue.

Richard's suggestion of replacing the light with an LED is a good one, or, if you want to save the maximum amount of money for the council then just remove the bulb!

Steve.
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Old 15th Apr 2022, 8:38 am   #14
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Default Re: BT phone-booth power supplies?

I think the OPs points 2 and 3 concerning safety and liability are of greater concern than the £10 a year saving.

Peter
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Old 15th Apr 2022, 9:21 am   #15
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Default Re: BT phone-booth power supplies?

There are two common methods of supplying street lighting;

each column (lamp-post) is supplied from a DNO cable in the street, or an overhead supply;

a distribution cabinet, also known as a feeder pillar with a dedicated DNO feed, supplies a cable network which is the property - and responsibility, of the lighting authority.

The second option is used where there are no DNO mains cables where the street lighting is needed.

In both cases, supplies are unmetered and the consumer has to provide regular submissions with a schedule of numbers and types of lights in use. There are tables of generic lamp types on which the tariffs are based.

Downstream of the DNO's cut-out, maintenance and testing is the responsibility of the lighting authority. The DNO's cut-out is a fuse unit usually installed in the enlarged bottom section of the column. The lighting authority will have a second cut-out unit of their own above the DNO fuse so that the authority has control without having to touch the DNO cut-out. In principle the lighting authority is forbidden to tough the DNO equipment, but in reality relations are often good enough for there to be some mutual understanding.

A conscientious lighting authority will try to inspect and test its equipment regularly - five year intervals by convention.

At least in Scotland, local authorities underwrite their own insurance liabilities so anyone taking over public lighting equipment would become responsible for inspection, testing and insurance.

As a cautionary note, it has to be recognised that direct supplies from the DNO will have a very low impedance - and hence a prospective fault current of 1000 A or more. Apart from any legal issues, anyone "drawing the cut-out" should have full PPE which means a full-face shield and certified rubber gloves. These cut-outs are often in very poor condition, making these precautions all the more necessary.

[There is a section of the Wiring Regulations (714, "Outdoor Lighting Installations) which covers highway power supplies and street furniture].

PMM
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Old 15th Apr 2022, 9:37 am   #16
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Default Re: BT phone-booth power supplies?

Adopt a kiosk (download PDF):

https://business.bt.com/campaigns/co...adopt-a-kiosk/

Agreements covering who should do what/maintenance etc (download PDF of choice):

https://business.bt.com/campaigns/co...-how-it-works/

Lawrence.
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Old 15th Apr 2022, 11:12 am   #17
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Default Re: BT phone-booth power supplies?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Electronpusher0 View Post
I think the OPs points 2 and 3 concerning safety and liability are of greater concern than the £10 a year saving.

Peter
I would not worry unduly.
Lights in phone kiosks were very low risk in practice and maintenance was limited to changing the lamp.
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