Ferguson 3V22/Baird 8929 VCR no picture

[dj_fivos_sak]

Hi. The 3V22 is an HR-3320EK. Not sure what are the differences between this and the 3330 (3V00). I have the HR-3330TR (no Ferguson equivalent) which is the multi system version. Does the head drum rotate at the proper speed?

[19Seventy7]

Hi

I didn’t even realise there were more versions like the 3320, I wonder what the differences are. The head drum looks to be spinning at the right speed. It doesn’t seem to fluctuate in speed either which is good.

Thanks
‘77

[Welsh Anorak]

It does sound like the problem is happening very late in the signal chain, as you've proved by the lack of E-E. My bet's on the switching circuit. As the sound's coming through the switching voltage must be there and it'll be the vision switching that's wrong. That's my opinion, anyway - what do others think?
Now then bad news. This is going to be really difficult to solve without a 'scope (and a full manual). If I were you I'd keep looking at Facebook marketplace and eBay. Very often 'scopes turn up and if the seller is reluctabt to post you can get yourself a bargain. I got a perfectly usable 20mHz Hameg twin-beam for next to nothing. You'll have to be prepared to travel, but 'scopes aren't too heavy (as long as it's not a Tek 575!) so even public transport's an option.
The variations in model numbers are generally for different markets - for example the American version has rotary tuners and there are SECAM and multi-region variants.

[19Seventy7]

I'll keep an eye out for both a scope and a manual. Think the scope may be able to go on my Christmas list if I don't find one before. There seems to be a few on eBay that look reasonable. I've seen a mini handheld one but not sure how great it is

Thanks
'77

[mark2collection]

The colouring of the facia suggests this VCR could be a Baird 8922.

Didn't these machine have 2 very long 'slide' switches on the bottom PCB? If a blank tape is inserted & just the 'record' key pressed, does the record light come on cleanly or flicker a bit (assuming the filament is not open circuit).

If a CRT TV is connected via RF, can you hear the TV's linestage change frequency between 'play' & 'stop' or, if playing a tape, adjusting the tracking control quite quickly should make the TV's linestage change note. This may give some pointers(?) Unless the TV sings like a canary with the machine connected in either mode, it'll at least prove your hearing

May be worth cleaning these slide switches and exercising them (VCR disconnected from the mains) a few times. Cannot remember how the signals are routed, has to be worth a go, same as the toggle switches on the front panel for VCR/TV/Camera, as previously mentioned.

Mark

[19Seventy7]

Hi

I can't see any sort of switch on the large PCB on the underside so maybe a different machine? I've cleaned and exercised all other switches though. Pressing down just record, the light comes on and is stable, there's no flickering at all

As for the line whistle I can't hear any noticeable change between play, stop and adjusting the tracking. It might be changing but I know I haven't got the best of hearing anyway.

Thanks
'77

[winston_1]

Originally Posted by dj_fivos_sak

Hi. The 3V22 is an HR-3320EK. Not sure what are the differences between this and the 3330 (3V00). I have the HR-3330TR (no Ferguson equivalent) which is the multi system version. Does the head drum rotate at the proper speed?

There are slight differences but I can't remember what they were. I believe the Ferguson branded ones were only sold in the UK. The JVC models were sold in many markets with the suffix denoting where. e.g

EK = UK PAL I UHF only.
EI = Ireland PAL I VHF/UHF
E = Europe PAL BG VHF/UHF
EG = Germany PAL/MeSecam BG VHF/UHF
TR = Triple standard PAL/MeSecam/NTSC 4.43 with BG tuner.

Far from an exhaustive list.

[Welsh Anorak]

No help with your fault, but while I remember if you're not familiar with these machines to get to see a record picture and hear the sound the record key needs to be pressed, just like an audio cassette machine. People didn't like this so it was changed to the 'always on' we're used to.
Personally I really liked the feature as, when you've finished watching a good film, pressing Stop reulted in a blank screen, not some screeching advert or inane programme.

[gallowfields]

just to say the slide switches are on the left hand side pcb[ looking from the front ] and can cause int sound and picture faults. brian

[19Seventy7]

Originally Posted by winston_1

There are slight differences but I can't remember what they were. I believe the Ferguson branded ones were only sold in the UK. The JVC models were sold in many markets with the suffix denoting where. e.g

EK = UK PAL I UHF only.
EI = Ireland PAL I VHF/UHF
E = Europe PAL BG VHF/UHF
EG = Germany PAL/MeSecam BG VHF/UHF
TR = Triple standard PAL/MeSecam/NTSC 4.43 with BG tuner.

Far from an exhaustive list.

I don't think Ferguson sold elsewhere either. Those suffixes make sense though, i think they probably make more sense than a lot of model numbers I've seen

No help with your fault, but while I remember if you're not familiar with these machines to get to see a record picture and hear the sound the record key needs to be pressed, just like an audio cassette machine. People didn't like this so it was changed to the 'always on' we're used to.
Personally I really liked the feature as, when you've finished watching a good film, pressing Stop reulted in a blank screen, not some screeching advert or inane programme.

I think I like the idea of having to press down the rec key too. It seems like it'd avoid confusion as to where the signal is coming from, but can see how people would dislike it. I'm sure I'll get used to it quickly when I get this VCR working. I'd like for it to become my "daily" if possible. Was the rec button needed to be pressed to get a display from the VCRs tuner too? I was talking to a friend about it and we couldn't work that bit out. I think it does?

just to say the slide switches are on the left hand side pcb[ looking from the front ] and can cause int sound and picture faults. brian

Thanks for letting me know, I'll have a look and give those switches a clean and exercise like suggested and see if that makes any difference

Thanks all for the help
'77

[toshiba tony]

Pressing record on it's own enabled the e-e mode. No deck action took place, just a picture from either the tuner or video in happened.

[mcousins]

I agree with Brian, the 2 multipole slide switches were always suspect. I know that Radio Rentals etc stocked them as spares but I never had to replace one, switch cleaner always came to the rescue! Maybe check the mechanism is operating the switches might be a good start.

Cheers - Mark

[gallowfields]

also remember on these that to operate the record funtion for e/e you need a blank tape in the deck . forgot to say that in previous post. brian

[mark2collection]

Thank you Brian for the correction, it's been a little while since I opened one of these machines right up, usually just belts & perhaps a lamp.

From vague memory, the long switch does video, the shorter (but still quite long) switch does audio. Clean the pair of 'em ...

Turns out my machine is an 8902, must hook it back up ... now it's retro & 'cool'

Mark

[Cobaltblue]

Re opened as requested.

Cheers

Mike T

[1100 man]

I collected this machine yesterday from Mr 77 as I'd offered to repair it for him. Being an Ebay purchase, I don't doubt somebody had found it in granny's loft so it is bound to have multiple issues.

The main problem detailed earlier in the thread was no picture, whatever you fed into or out of it. The belts had been replaced and it was basically working mechanically but needed a good dose of proper faultfinding.

On the bench with the top cover removed, I gave it some power. The clock came on but with several segments missing - that seems to be a common problem now with these, I guess they are 40+ years old! A member on the Vrat forum has written a detailed repair guide for these clocks so that will be a project in itself.

The mechanics did basically work, and it let me rewind, fast forward and play a tape - rather surprisingly the cassette lamp was still working! After a few seconds, the tape rode up the audio control head so it's probably going to need a pinch roller and some careful adjustment of the ACE head zenith.

Connecting the RF out to a TV allowed me to find the output of the VCR but predictably it was blank. More importantly, there was no tuning signal when the rear switch was set to 'test'.

Time to get the manual out and look at the circuit. It's a gorgeous manual with large fold out colour circuit diagrams and a real joy to use. I was intrigued as to where the test signal actually came from. It transpires it's generated by 6 gates in a 4069 logic chip on the video board. A check with the 'scope showed plenty of output there and I could trace it all the way through to the input to the RF modulator.

After a lengthy hunt for a PL259 to BNC adaptor and suitable leads (this machine uses PL259 for video in/out and DIN for audio), I managed to get some video signal in to the 'video in' socket on the machine.

As has been said, you have to press the record button to enable E-E signals to go through the machine. With this done, and a good waggle of the very dodgy 'TV Camera' switch on the front panel, I could follow my nice stairstep video signal all the way through to the RF modulator.

As I still had a blank screen, it had to be the modulator that was faulty. So out it came and off came the covers. What joy - real components - no surface mount - no double sided print! Tracing the video signal into the unit lead to a small preset pot - undoubtedly to set the video level into the modulator. It took a few seconds to realise that this preset looked different to the others - yes, it had lost its 'hat', as in the twiddly bit that connects the wiper to the track. Bridging it temporarily with a resistor restored nice video to the RF output.

So apart from finding a suitable preset to replace it with, that's the first fault fixed!

Onwards to the next fault

All the best
Nick

[mark pirate]

I have a couple of these machines, I have to agree how easy they are to service, One of my machines I bought second hand back in 1980.
It is on it's 3rd replacement head & 2nd belt kit and it still works as well as it did 42 years ago!

I will be interested to see your repair on the clock module, I had to replace mine from a scrap machine some years ago, I still have the original one.


Mark

[19Seventy7]

Blimey that was quick! I'm glad it was an easy fix for you and nothing vexing. I really appreciate you doing this for me. It almost seems too simple now!

re the pinch roller, I have a feeling I changed that, and in the process accidentally bent the arm it sits on, though that may have been on my 3V29. Could that be causing it to ride up the head? I did try to level it out again but probably didn't make a very good job of it as I had no better tools to hand than a fat pair of pliers!

Thank you again, It's really appreciated
'77

[1100 man]

Originally Posted by 19Seventy7

Blimey that was quick! I'm glad it was an easy fix for you and nothing vexing. I really appreciate you doing this for me. It almost seems too simple now!

Hi '77,
Yes, that was a fairly simple one to diagnose, but still needed a 'scope and a pattern generator to get there quickly!

Sometimes a fault is easy to diagnose but the cure is long winded such as changing a multi pin chip or rebuilding a power supply. Other times the diagnosis takes forever, but the cure is a 5p diode or resistor.

Anyway, a search through a pile of old boards turned up a suitable 470 Ohm preset of the correct size to fit into the modulator. We now have video & audio coming through the machine to the RF output, so that's a good step forward.

Next, I'll turn my attention to the mechanics and find out why the tape is riding up the audio head. On the face of it, the pinch roller looks pretty good, but I can't get it off because the screw head has been chewed...

Out of interest, I powered up my 3V16 to see what the clock display was like. It too has several missing segments. It didn't have when I last used it about 5 years ago, so it would seem that it's just age that's causing the problem rather than use.

The clock rebuild process is documented here from a member of the Vrat forum (I hope its OK to post a link to that?)

https://www.radios-tv.co.uk/communit...clock-rebuild/

Cheers
Nick

[Nickthedentist]

Very useful tutorial from Adrian, thanks to him and to you for the link.