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Vintage Computers Any vintage computer systems, calculators, video games etc., but with an emphasis on 1980s and earlier equipment.

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Old 25th Mar 2022, 10:42 pm   #1
Phil__G
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Default More SC/MP documentation

I've been chatting by email with Freek Heite about his Elektor system, and he gave me a link to the Elektor manual including the listing (in German)
https://we.tl/t-xMwr5osiqT * this is a temporary store & might be gone in 7 days *
and also to a site and a machine I've not seen before:
http://www.wolfgangrobel.de/sbc/scmp.htm * Note the the menu on the left has further SC/MP links *

Interesting eh? Many thanks to Freek for these pointers

Cheers
Phil

Last edited by Phil__G; 25th Mar 2022 at 10:53 pm.
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Old 26th Mar 2022, 6:46 am   #2
circuitryboy
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Default Re: More SC/MP documentation

I've seen those red-box pics before. That cropped '3055 always makes me smile.
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Old 26th Mar 2022, 8:57 pm   #3
Michael Haardt
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Default Re: More SC/MP documentation

That is a successor system to the Elektor system. There is a whole book in German describing it:

https://archive.org/details/sc-mp-mi...-handbuch-1980

Freek Heite does not happen to have the software on the Elektor Software Service record 5?

1 Luna
2 Battleships
3 Keyplay
4 Runtext
5 Biorhythm
6 Tracer
7 Disassembler

I have 002 and 004 and I think I could regenerate 001, but the programs above appear to have been lost.

Michael
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Old 1st Apr 2022, 4:54 pm   #4
Phil__G
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Default Re: More SC/MP documentation

Hi Michael
Today I had a reply from Freek:

Gentlemen,
Please find attached a scan and the binaries of Elektuur Software Service record 005.
I have chosen file type “SCB” for the binaries. They include the Elbug header and checksum data, so they can be loaded into a SC/MP – Elbug system as-is.
Have fun!
Freek.


The file is too big to attach to a forum post so I'll upload it HERE (right-click, save link as...)

Last edited by Phil__G; 1st Apr 2022 at 5:06 pm.
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Old 1st Apr 2022, 5:33 pm   #5
Michael Haardt
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Default Re: More SC/MP documentation

I will try them when my HEXIO compatible card for the NDR Klein Computer is finished. I checked the frame structure and checksums and the files look ok. Since the listings are included as PDF, we could restore the original source code eventually. Great!

Michael
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Old 2nd Apr 2022, 9:50 am   #6
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Default Re: More SC/MP documentation

This is fantastic. I know Michael has hunted for this elektor disc for a long time and there it is. If I am right, Freek is even a Dutch person so the treasure was even nearer then we could guess. Thank you Phil for being the intermediat. I can play them on my elektuur SC/MP now.
Benny
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Old 16th May 2022, 6:27 am   #7
circuitryboy
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Default Re: More SC/MP documentation

A belated addition, for info.
There are full listings of the ESS005 programs in the second volume of the
Ácomputer booklets mentioned in "SC/MP programming book?" thread.
These weren't printed in Elektor magazines.
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Old 16th May 2022, 5:22 pm   #8
Michael Haardt
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Default Re: More SC/MP documentation

Interesting! I have the German edition of that and the programs are described, but there are no listings. I have those in scanned PDF form, though, but not yet converted back to source. Do your listings include comments?

Michael
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Old 17th May 2022, 9:32 am   #9
circuitryboy
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Default Re: More SC/MP documentation

Yes, it seems there are different contents.
You probably have an 'advert' article for the ESS disks which appeared in Elektor Oct78.
The listings are minimal hex, I believe output by the Disassembler which is included.
Up to six columns per page. There is some info for each program.
I've included pics of Luna to show the format but they're size limited so fuzzy.
I don't want to scan the booklet - it would wreck the binding.
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Old 17th May 2022, 8:06 pm   #10
Michael Haardt
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Default Re: More SC/MP documentation

It looks like those are the same disassembly listings I have already. Too bad, commented code would have been more nice.

Well, should I ever get my HEXIO built, I will come back to these.

Michael
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Old 18th May 2022, 7:10 pm   #11
audiokit
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Default Re: More SC/MP documentation

On a Dutch forum, the same discussion is going on. I received the Dutch copy of book 2. In that book is a complete listing of ELBUG II It is a monitor that has the same functionality and same size but a few changes were made. In short:
1. The CPU register command has improved.
2.An extra search routine was added to the Cassette program
3. You can jump directly to a programm with the UP key.

On the other hand, not all programms written for ELBUG I will run on ELBUG II.
I will try to key it in and run it on my sc/mp. It works with ELBUG in one 2716 EPROM so I can easily switch from one to the other.
All programs from the ESS005 record seem to work, I did not test them completely though. I uploaded them to an EPROM from which I could run them

Benny
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Old 18th May 2022, 7:49 pm   #12
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Default Re: More SC/MP documentation

To save you keying in...
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Old 19th May 2022, 7:33 am   #13
Silvester
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Default Re: More SC/MP documentation

I should mention in the binary file, the first four bytes are the start and end address (big-endian). In case that is inconvenient to strip out, here it is raw 1536 bytes.
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Old 19th May 2022, 8:35 am   #14
SiriusHardware
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Default Re: More SC/MP documentation

Hi Silvester, thanks for taking the trouble to join to post that useful code, which I see has already attracted some interest. As a new member your posts will be subject to 'new user' moderation at first, but that should wear off after you have made a few posts.

Welcome to the forum.
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Old 19th May 2022, 9:08 am   #15
Phil__G
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Default Re: More SC/MP documentation

Hi David, its great to find yet another SC/MP enthusiast, this seems to be THE gathering spot for scampers all over the globe. We'd love to hear of your experiences & how you got involved with the SC/MP, are you still actively working with it? Have you anything else in your archives?
Cheers
Phil
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Old 19th May 2022, 8:28 pm   #16
Silvester
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Default RE: More SC/MP documentation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SiriusHardware View Post
Hi Silvester, thanks for taking the trouble to join to post that useful code, which I see has already attracted some interest. As a new member your posts will be subject to 'new user' moderation at first, but that should wear off after you have made a few posts.

Welcome to the forum.
Thank you. Although I registered many years ago (2014) I hadn't realised I never posted - my initial interest was to solve problem with an old Crotech oscilloscope.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil__G View Post
Hi David, its great to find yet another SC/MP enthusiast, this seems to be THE gathering spot for scampers all over the globe. We'd love to hear of your experiences & how you got involved with the SC/MP, are you still actively working with it? Have you anything else in your archives?
Cheers
Phil
My first encounter with the SC/MP dates way back to 1981 when I got a copy of Ian R Sinclair's book 'Practical Microprocessor Systems' in which he detailed a minimal assessment system based on the INS8060, as a simple breadboard single-step computer. He also detailed the programming of the INS8154 PIO/RAM chip, so I bought both chips to play with on breadboard. A few years later Elektor were selling off both SC/MPUTER books so I picked them up and for many years intended to build the system. Eventually in the late 1980's I built a clone of the system with 16K RAM / 16K EPROM (split into configurable 4K pages). I got Elbug1, Elbug2 and NIBLE BASIC working on it. I then decided it would be a useful stand alone system to control my Maplin 5600S synthesiser (built in 1979), through its simple digital interface. I wrote an assembler/disassembler (in Sinclair QL BASIC) so I could write assembler source and send it to SC/MP serially at 9600 baud (using fileserver code running on SC/MP). Over the last 20 years I must have written about 24K code for controlling the synth and other things. So much so I had to increase EPROM to 32K to contain it. I modified Elbug for my setup, by extending into other EPROM space (improved MODIFY routine etc). The only thing which I guess isn't specific to my system that I have is the Elektor modified version of NIBLE BASIC (4K working from page 1, with RAM in page 2 upwards), that was listed in book 2.
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Old 20th May 2022, 2:52 pm   #17
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Default Re: More SC/MP documentation

Hi David, thank you so much for saving me the keying. I thought no one had the bin files as the Elektor SC/MP lost it's appeal when the Junior project was started. Your computer looks super, also the keycaps really look nice. Did you follow the original elektor schematic? I still have some problems with the 7 segment led's showing some shadow from nearby digits. What transistors are used to switch the led's? Did you add/design the single step mode yourself?
Benny
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Old 20th May 2022, 5:35 pm   #18
Mark1960
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Default Re: More SC/MP documentation

If the digit drive is an npn transistor with base drive from a resistor you could try the fix Karen Orton used on her PIC14, put small capacitor in parallel with each base resistor to speed up the transistor turn off times.
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Old 20th May 2022, 9:16 pm   #19
Silvester
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiokit View Post
Hi David, thank you so much for saving me the keying. I thought no one had the bin files as the Elektor SC/MP lost it's appeal when the Junior project was started. Your computer looks super, also the keycaps really look nice. Did you follow the original elektor schematic? I still have some problems with the 7 segment led's showing some shadow from nearby digits. What transistors are used to switch the led's? Did you add/design the single step mode yourself?
Benny
I followed the schematics only as required to make it Elbug compatible (just page 0):

$0000-05FF Elbug 1.5K (EPROM)
[$0600-06FF INS8154 PIO/RAM]
$0700-07FF Keyboard (A3=1), Display (A3=0)
[$0800-BFFF 1K spare EPROM]
$0C00-0FFF RAM (2114)

[ ] = added in unused Elbug space

I used a 16K EPROM and two 8K SRAMs split into 4K pages patched into whatever page required via wire straps on IC header (see photo in last post).

I used the same Elektor design for keyboard and display (see image below). Only differences are for keyboard I used 74LS244 in place of two 74125. On the display I didn't use inverters on the input and output of 7489 SRAM chips, but drove inputs direct from data bus and buffered outputs with 7417 ICs. I used BC557 PNP transistors (plastic version of BC177 used in original design). All other components are same values. The only thing I changed was to clock driving the display strobing, original design used fixed rate (gate N36, 330ohm, 100nF). I replaced 330ohm resistor with 100ohm in series with 1Kohm preset to alter rate. It's a long time ago but I think it was an attempt at brightness control. I don't recall having any shadowing problem, though I did use a green filter over the displays to improve contrast. Perhaps altering strobe rate similarly may help?

The single step mode was something from breadboard minimal system (see book extract image). I used same design as Elektor for HALT/CONT key mechanism (useful for quick debugging).
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Old 21st May 2022, 7:00 am   #20
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Default Re: More SC/MP documentation

Hello David, I never saw this book, it mentinons the MK14 and also that it was out of production at the moment this book was published. Does the book contain more SC/MP articles? and what is the title of the book?
I think I overlooked the CONT/HALT switch in the Elektor manual,it was published in the first issue and I skipped this part as I wanted to build the HEX input/output system straight away. I will add this to my processor board if I can find an empty spot
Your last posting gave me a lot of inspiration again to experiment with the original schematic, specially the way you changed the display strobing is something I want to try on my machine.
Benny
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