UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Powered By Google Custom Search Vintage Radio and TV Service Data

Go Back   UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum > General Vintage Technology > Websites

Notices

Websites Found an interesting website? Post the details here and share it with the rest of us. Please stick to websites that are in some way related to our hobby/interest.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 25th Oct 2021, 10:03 am   #1
HECTOR63
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Bedfordshire, UK.
Posts: 601
Default Beginners guide to valves

https://spartanmusic.co.uk/blogs/smb...-in-amps-audio

I found this very useful as an entry into information into the world of Valves for me at this stage
HECTOR63 is offline  
Old 25th Oct 2021, 10:48 am   #2
Kevin Hoyland
Heptode
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Rotherham, South Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 559
Default Re: Beginners guide to valves

Hello and good morning.
Thank you for posting this site i have enjoyed it.

kevin
Kevin Hoyland is offline  
Old 25th Oct 2021, 12:21 pm   #3
barrymagrec
Octode
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Morden, Surrey, UK.
Posts: 1,552
Default Re: Beginners guide to valves

"ECC83 is just a product code"

It appears that he is completely ignorant as to the information carried in the numbering of European valves.....
barrymagrec is offline  
Old 25th Oct 2021, 1:13 pm   #4
ms660
Dekatron
 
ms660's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Cornwall, UK.
Posts: 13,454
Default Re: Beginners guide to valves

He said the 12AU7 is a seven element tube and a triode is a three element tube.

This is the one I have recommended in the past for begineers:

https://worldradiohistory.com/BOOKSH...Rider-1945.pdf

Lawrence.
ms660 is offline  
Old 25th Oct 2021, 1:19 pm   #5
Boulevardier
Octode
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Bristol, UK.
Posts: 1,642
Default Re: Beginners guide to valves

Quote:
Originally Posted by barrymagrec View Post
"ECC83 is just a product code"

It appears that he is completely ignorant as to the information carried in the numbering of European valves.....
“...a positively charged electron is attracted to a negatively charged electron.”

“The reason brand Y sounds better is because they're newer. And new tubes sound better than old worn out tubes.”

“It’s best to think of tubes not just as amplifiers, but also means of adding distortion. Distortion and tube amps are practically inseparable.”

“It’s actually the purpose of the filament to create heat, and therefore light. Not just something to make it look cool (I’ll admit that I used to think that’s what it was for).”

“The cathode is an element located next to the filament so they can best work together. It is negatively charged.”

I think the whole thing needs to be taken with a pinch of salt, and with a handkerchief and bottle of smelling salts within easy reach....
Boulevardier is offline  
Old 25th Oct 2021, 1:38 pm   #6
Kentode
Octode
 
Kentode's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Yorkshire, England.
Posts: 1,294
Default Re: Beginners guide to valves

So much misinformation it's ridiculous.
__________________
Regards, Ken.

BVWS member
Kentode is offline  
Old 25th Oct 2021, 2:01 pm   #7
stevehertz
Dekatron
 
stevehertz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Rugeley, Staffordshire, UK.
Posts: 8,809
Default Re: Beginners guide to valves

Well yes, it's common practise to rip apart any source of information that is anything less than perfect. What a fine bunch we are. Pause for breath... erroneous as it is, principally this is meant as a primer for guitarists to understand more about the valves/tubes they use in their amplifiers, and yes they are meant to distort in this application. It's not meant for egg heads or those taking a degree in tube theory, it is what it is, don't get too hung up about it, refer to another source if 100% technical accuracy is the order of the day. I think anyone wanting to get onto the first rung of the tube technology ladder would come away a lot wiser and the faux pas would affect them none, or not much at least.
__________________
A digital radio is the latest thing, but a vintage wireless is forever..
stevehertz is offline  
Old 25th Oct 2021, 4:58 pm   #8
Guest
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Beginners guide to valves

Quote:
principally this is meant as a primer for guitarists to understand more about the valves/tubes they use in their amplifiers
Fine, as it goes but when said guitarist wants to expand their knowledge there is a difference not an expansion of learning. Can cause major confusion. There is no excuse for incorrect information in a technical document. Omissions for clarity, OK.
 
Old 25th Oct 2021, 5:55 pm   #9
Superscope
Octode
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: St Austell, Cornwall, UK.
Posts: 1,018
Default Re: Beginners guide to valves

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehertz View Post
Well yes, it's common practise to rip apart any source of information that is anything less than perfect. What a fine bunch we are.

That's an interesting comment!



Ian
Superscope is offline  
Old 25th Oct 2021, 6:41 pm   #10
stevehertz
Dekatron
 
stevehertz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Rugeley, Staffordshire, UK.
Posts: 8,809
Default Re: Beginners guide to valves

Quote:
Originally Posted by Superscope View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehertz View Post
Well yes, it's common practise to rip apart any source of information that is anything less than perfect. What a fine bunch we are.

That's an interesting comment!



Ian
For example, remember the angst that the thread about the Repair Shop caused because people mockingly ripped apart the technical accuracy of the programme, completely missing the point. What's your view on my "interesting comment".?!
__________________
A digital radio is the latest thing, but a vintage wireless is forever..
stevehertz is offline  
Old 25th Oct 2021, 6:47 pm   #11
trickie_dickie
Hexode
 
trickie_dickie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Aberdare, South Wales, UK
Posts: 403
Default Re: Beginners guide to valves

"Electrons work like a magnet - a positively charged electron is attracted to a negatively charged electron and vice versa. After being released from the cathode, the electrons flow to the next component – the anode, due to this charged attraction."

WHAT?
__________________
Richard
trickie_dickie is offline  
Old 25th Oct 2021, 7:35 pm   #12
Radio Wrangler
Moderator
 
Radio Wrangler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Fife, Scotland, UK.
Posts: 22,801
Default Re: Beginners guide to valves

Find any ARRL or RSGB handbook of the valve era, and you'll find good explanations aimed at someone starting right at the beginning and without any technical background. They will take them gently through what's involved up to whatever level they can use.

Their content has been checked and is free from misleading errors. The material just pointed at contains some schoolboy howlers, and they don't look to be there for fun. I'd suggest any beginners give it a wide berth. The handbooks also cover radio applications and don't look at the world through audio/guitar goggles.

They are a lighter entry than Scroggie, Terman, and Langford-Smith.

David
__________________
Can't afford the volcanic island yet, but the plans for my monorail and the goons' uniforms are done
Radio Wrangler is offline  
Old 25th Oct 2021, 8:40 pm   #13
Station X
Moderator
 
Station X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Ipswich, Suffolk, IP4, UK.
Posts: 21,192
Default Re: Beginners guide to valves

Good explanation of how valves work here:-

https://www.vintage-radio.com/repair...lves-work.html

I think I must have been one of the last students to have been taught valve theory before it was dropped from syllabuses. It was taught alongside transistor theory.

I still have my old text books more than 50 years later.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1996.jpg
Views:	88
Size:	23.9 KB
ID:	244233   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1994.jpg
Views:	76
Size:	41.8 KB
ID:	244234  
__________________
Graham. Forum Moderator

Reach for your meter before you reach for your soldering iron.
Station X is offline  
Old 25th Oct 2021, 8:54 pm   #14
barrymagrec
Octode
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Morden, Surrey, UK.
Posts: 1,552
Default Re: Beginners guide to valves

There was a valve question in my O level physics exam - I answered it though we had not covered it on the course.
barrymagrec is offline  
Old 25th Oct 2021, 9:39 pm   #15
joebog1
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Mareeba, North Queensland, Australia
Posts: 2,704
Default Re: Beginners guide to valves

Quote:
Originally Posted by barrymagrec View Post
"ECC83 is just a product code"

It appears that he is completely ignorant as to the information carried in the numbering of European valves.....
As am I, but as I am approaching 70 and have NEVER read an explanation of what that "code" means I will never know. I have made this comment a few times.

Apart from that, the link does give nice easy "very brief" explantaions and with a bit of study should prove quite helpful to beginners.

Joe
joebog1 is offline  
Old 25th Oct 2021, 10:28 pm   #16
Herald1360
Dekatron
 
Herald1360's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Leominster, Herefordshire, UK.
Posts: 16,527
Default Re: Beginners guide to valves

Hmm, I wouldn't fancy being too close to positively charged electrons meeting negatively charged ones.
__________________
....__________
....|____||__|__\_____
.=.| _---\__|__|_---_|.
.........O..Chris....O
Herald1360 is offline  
Old 25th Oct 2021, 11:39 pm   #17
Radio Wrangler
Moderator
 
Radio Wrangler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Fife, Scotland, UK.
Posts: 22,801
Default Re: Beginners guide to valves

Heisenberg's uncertainty principle says that if you know where the oppositely charged electrons meet (!) you can't be certain what will happen. But Murphy's law says that you can be quite certain who it will happen to.

Any text that goes on about 'positively charged electrons' blows away any credibility and can only serve to confuse beginners.

David
__________________
Can't afford the volcanic island yet, but the plans for my monorail and the goons' uniforms are done
Radio Wrangler is offline  
Old 26th Oct 2021, 12:22 am   #18
turretslug
Dekatron
 
turretslug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Surrey, UK.
Posts: 4,385
Default Re: Beginners guide to valves

There's a whiff of Spinal Tap to it- maybe that was the intention?

Anyone older than about 4 knows that the internet is awash with chaff (polite euphemism), keeps the salt cellar close at hand and searches out multiple sources on a subject with the weary acknowledgement that they may actually end up being more bewildered by its tsunami of contradictory didacticism than they were to start with....

Quote:
Originally Posted by joebog1 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by barrymagrec View Post
"ECC83 is just a product code"

It appears that he is completely ignorant as to the information carried in the numbering of European valves.....
As am I, but as I am approaching 70 and have NEVER read an explanation of what that "code" means I will never know. I have made this comment a few times.

Apart from that, the link does give nice easy "very brief" explantaions and with a bit of study should prove quite helpful to beginners.

Joe
I dunno Joe, it's pretty good at giving at least an idea of type of valve, base and heater voltage/current (as appropriate). It's frayed at the edges and not entirely consistent but at least gives more information than the US codes with a similar number of characters, the letter part of the latter is near meaningless (apart from many rectifiers)!
turretslug is offline  
Old 26th Oct 2021, 3:12 am   #19
Uncle Bulgaria
Nonode
 
Uncle Bulgaria's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Cornwall, UK.
Posts: 2,315
Default Re: Beginners guide to valves

Quote:
Originally Posted by joebog1 View Post
As am I, but as I am approaching 70 and have NEVER read an explanation of what that "code" means I will never know. I have made this comment a few times.
Here's a nice table from R-Type, Joe. I hadn't realised there was a code before reading this thread, but then I never learned about specific valves, just gradually taught myself how they function!

http://www.r-type.org/articles/art-170.htm

I found Valve Wizard written in a helpful style, as well as my Van Valkenburgh, Nooger and Neville books.

http://www.valvewizard.co.uk/
Uncle Bulgaria is offline  
Old 26th Oct 2021, 7:37 am   #20
Tim
Dekatron
 
Tim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Bradford on Avon, Wiltshire, UK.
Posts: 3,301
Default Re: Beginners guide to valves

One could do a lot worse than check out “Uncle Doug” on You-Tube. Although predominantly a guitar amp channel( don’t let that put you off), his explanations of how “ toobs” work are excellent, so good in fact that even I understand them. I think he is a former school teacher, and it shows.
__________________
"Nothing is as dangerous as being too modern;one is apt to grow old fashioned quite suddenly."
Tim is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 2:18 am.


All information and advice on this forum is subject to the WARNING AND DISCLAIMER located at https://www.vintage-radio.net/rules.html.
Failure to heed this warning may result in death or serious injury to yourself and/or others.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2002 - 2023, Paul Stenning.