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Old 10th Oct 2015, 10:50 am   #161
turretslug
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Default Re: 13A Plugs old and not so old

Sadly, it's that sort of complacency/negligence/laziness that meant that moulded-on mains plugs became mandatory on appliances. On balance, not a bad thing, as it's probably the innocent who most often suffered as a result. I'm still fuming slightly at the antique lamp that my sister recently showed me- "Oh, I didn't worry about plugging it in, 'cos it had been PAT tested". PAT tested by someone who was a criminal or an idiot or both, that is.

At least a moulded-on plug probably has either crimped or welded terminations that are unlikely to work loose, unlike the screws that frequently are found to be loose in fitted plugs.
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Old 10th Oct 2015, 5:06 pm   #162
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Smile Re: 13A Plugs old and not so old

Hi,
Since the Woolworth's brand 'Hercules' was mentioned previously, I'm reminded of rubber Hercules flush unswitched wall sockets with their trade mark fine vertical stripe moulding on the face plate. Or did I imagine it?
Cheers, Pete.
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Old 10th Oct 2015, 6:01 pm   #163
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Default Re: 13A Plugs old and not so old

A new estate that was built near me in the '40s had round pin 13 amp plugs with the live pin which unscrewed being the fuse, people complained bitterly about the cost of these fuses being used to only fitting a length of wire to the to the fuse in the fuse box previously. Does anyone have one of these plugs?

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Old 10th Oct 2015, 6:14 pm   #164
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Default Re: 13A Plugs old and not so old

Surely they must have been 15A plug tops? AFAIK there were never any round-pin 13A ones. I've never seen a fused 15A plug top though.

I've just found the wiki entry that says BS546 plug tops could be made to accept BS646 fuses - of a maximum rating identical to the rating of the connector.
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Old 10th Oct 2015, 8:13 pm   #165
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Smile Re: 13A Plugs old and not so old

Hi,
They were made by Dorman Smith and were quite common on council estates. I think the BBC used them a lot too.
I have a few plugs & sockets but no photos as yet (unless you can spot them among this lot in the third photo! Five of them on the right hand end of the third row down). However, here is a two way DS adapter with the pin-fuse.
P.S. MK made fused round pin plugs of each rating; 2, 5 and 15 amp. I'll photograph them next time I've got the 'plug box' out. Don't know if any other companies made them as well.
Cheers, Pete
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Old 10th Oct 2015, 8:48 pm   #166
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Default Re: 13A Plugs old and not so old

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Hi,
I have a few plugs & sockets but no photos as yet (unless you can spot them among this lot in the third photo! Five of them on the left hand end of the third row down). Cheers, Pete
Did you mean right hand end?
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Old 11th Oct 2015, 8:40 am   #167
Peter.N.
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Default Re: 13A Plugs old and not so old

They were definitely 13A, that was the first time I had heard of them. The estate was built just after the war on what was woodland near where we lived, they dynamited the tree stumps out and it sounded as though the war was still going on.

We used to have a lot of customers on the estate so I was well familiar with the plugs but it wasn't long before the modern 13a plugs appeared, I first saw them on another new estate in the '50s.

They were in the minority for a number of years though, Petts Wood where we lived had variety of plugs and they varied from the posh side of the railway and the cinema side where we lived. There were 2,5,10 and 15 amp round pin plugs on our side and only the 15a were three pin, the other side used Wylex and some other weird and wonderful things.

We had various types of 'universal' plugs on our soldering irons but they didn't fit the BC sockets that were still widely used.

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Old 11th Oct 2015, 12:21 pm   #168
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Default Re: 13A Plugs old and not so old

In my Misc Fuses box I have one of those Dorman Smith fuse pins. It's stamped 15 at the end, no other markings remain.
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Old 11th Oct 2015, 1:03 pm   #169
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Default Re: 13A Plugs old and not so old

We had those plugs in the council house I lived in as a child. Fuse ratings other than 13A were available and they were coloured coded. The fuse had a nasty habit of snapping off in the wall socket leaving a length of fuse wire protruding which could shock the unwary.

By the 1970's the plugs were becoming increasingly expensive and it was a relief when the house was rewired with standard 13A sockets. This job wasn't as easy as it sounded as the sockets were mounted on round conduit boxes which had to be changed for square ones.
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Old 12th Oct 2015, 7:06 pm   #170
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Default Re: 13A Plugs old and not so old

Quote:
Originally Posted by turretslug View Post
Sadly, it's that sort of complacency/negligence/laziness that meant that moulded-on mains plugs became mandatory on appliances.
I found pretty early on to always check the plug on second hand appliances. I've been opening them all up now for years, and the majority have been a mess inside, so judging by this experience, I'm surprised pre-wired plugs didn't come in years before they did.

As for PAT testing, I bought an apparently PAT tested lamp as well some years ago. It didn't work, the bulb just didn't light up. I moved it around and the cable with exposed live ends fell out the base, narrowly missing my arm. So I don't trust PAT test labels any more either. If it's second hand, I always open it up and look inside before I plug it in.
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Old 12th Oct 2015, 7:38 pm   #171
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Default Re: 13A Plugs old and not so old

I don't trust moulded 13A plugs because I can't open them up to check them, and from some comments on the web there are some very dubious ones around now. Anything I depend on, anything that is going to run unattended (when I am out, asleep, whatever) I cut off the moulded plug and fit a rewireable one.

I totally ignore PAT labels. Everything, old or new, gets opened up for inspection and then gets my version of the tests including a proper insulation test. Perhaps I have been lucky, perhaps it's bacause most of my old stuff is HP, Tektronix, etc, but I have found a lot more dodgy new stuff than second-hand stuff!
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Old 12th Oct 2015, 8:40 pm   #172
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Default Re: 13A Plugs old and not so old

Please keep on topic, PAT has been extensively covered in relevant threads.
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Old 12th Oct 2015, 8:48 pm   #173
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Default Re: 13A Plugs old and not so old

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I don't trust moulded 13A plugs because I can't open them up to check them, and from some comments on the web there are some very dubious ones around now.
"Professionally", I like IEC moulded-plugs and any that are at all suspect I fail, guillotine and replace with a new-from-stock lead which comes with appropriate test/certification paperwork.

Source-traceable 1-metre 6A IEC-moulded-plug lead - £1.39

My chargeable-time to a customer - £45/hour +VAT.

Why waste time messing around?
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Old 12th Oct 2015, 11:08 pm   #174
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Default Re: 13A Plugs old and not so old

Re #57, D&S's earliest patent (GB574125) covering their type of fused plug was applied for in 1943, before the 13A system had been finalised. Possibly the original concept would have been to provide fuses corresponding with the then-existing 2A, 5A and 15A circuits, and the 15A fuse is a relic of this?
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Old 12th Oct 2015, 11:44 pm   #175
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Default Re: 13A Plugs old and not so old

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyDuell View Post
I don't trust moulded 13A plugs because I can't open them up to check them, and from some comments on the web there are some very dubious ones around now. Anything I depend on, anything that is going to run unattended (when I am out, asleep, whatever) I cut off the moulded plug and fit a rewireable one.
I tortured one of those dubious fuse-less 13 amp plugs back in 2012 and found that the insulation was fine and flame retardent but every thing else about it was absolutely awful.
The CSA was marked on the cable as 0.5mm and when testing it that was the CSA of the bundle of strands.
The earth resistance hardly lifted the pointer off the bottom stop.

Fitting a fused plug onto one of these is just not good enough.
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Old 13th Oct 2015, 9:54 am   #176
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Default Re: 13A Plugs old and not so old

Just an aside- if 3*0.5mm is interpreted literally as written, the total CSA of three 0.5mm dia wires is about 0.5mm^2.
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Old 13th Oct 2015, 10:12 am   #177
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Default Re: 13A Plugs old and not so old

I interpreted it as meaning that the flex contained three insulated wires each made up of a number of strands having a total CSA of 0.5mm^2, which is what was measured. This would be good for 3 amps. Lack of a fuse could be a problem though.

The sockets on these cables are designed so that they can't be used with an electric kettle.
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Old 13th Oct 2015, 1:59 pm   #178
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Default Re: 13A Plugs old and not so old

The ones with a fused plug are rated at 6 amps.
The one I took to bits read just under 1 ohm per core.
At 6 amps the cable would dissipate about 60 watts. The wires are too thin to reliably be terminated in a regular fused plug.
I chopped it up and used the wires to fix rubber wiring in a radio.
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Old 13th Oct 2015, 4:00 pm   #179
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Default Re: 13A Plugs old and not so old

These cheap fuse-less 13A plugs have featured before, with much the same conclusion. People like us, with the knowledge we have, should really just scrap them on sight. As has been said, decent ones are available for peanuts.
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Old 13th Oct 2015, 6:51 pm   #180
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Smile Re: 13A Plugs old and not so old

Hi,
As promised, here's a few pics of my DS plugs & sockets. Oddly, they don't seem to have any cable grip device, unless something is missing from them.
I've also thrown in a Wylex type plug & socket for good measure.
Apologies for the green tint.
Cheers, Pete.
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