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Old 10th Jul 2011, 1:29 pm   #1
Colourstar
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Default 13A Plugs old and not so old

Lucky me! I bought half a dozen brown 13A plugs from a rummage box at a car boot sale for 20p each and was pleased to find when I looked more closely that they are all unused old stock: pristine pins and still-flat cable grips!

Four of the plugs were the common MK design, but the other two set me thinking. The shape is familiar in its later white version in 'unbreakable' plastic and usually branded Volex (or VT as on the example I had to hand for the pic). The brown ones are branded NTA and 'Empire Made'. They appear to be pre-BS1363. The cover is retained by two screws, rather than one central one in the later version. Note that the original fitted fuse isn't colour coded.

So my question is simply are these two related? The shape is the same, but fixings and internals are quite different. Are they by entirely unrelated makers or did NTA evolve into Volex? The design was long lasting and I'm sure was still available well into the 1980s.

Steve J
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Old 10th Jul 2011, 3:17 pm   #2
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Question Re: 13A Plugs old and not so old

Just a side-line question, please - but one that I feel is relevant here.

Re: picture 1. I see that the plug is of the older design that does not have the small insulating sections on the L & N pins where they fit into the plug housing. If I fit such a plug to a piece of equipment, knowing that that item will - or stand a very good chance of - subsequently being in the ownership of a member of the general public, is it legal to fit such a plug in the first place?

N.B. I am aware for the reasons for the existence of these insulating sections, so this issue does not need to be discussed here.

This is something that has been puzzling me for ages; relevant guidance will be appreciated: thank you.

Al.
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Old 10th Jul 2011, 4:38 pm   #3
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Default Re: 13A Plugs old and not so old

No it's not permitted to fit an unsleeved plug. When I did my P.A.T. course it was explained to me like this. If a piece of equipment is presented for testing already fitted with an unsleaved plug and it is in good order with all connections good wired correctly with sufficient cable restraint then you can pass it. If however there is a wiring error in the plug or the or the cable is damaged and has to be replaced you must replace the plug with a sleeved one before retesting the appliance.

Jay
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Old 10th Jul 2011, 5:02 pm   #4
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Default Re: 13A Plugs old and not so old

Hi Al,

Pm sent, as this topic is predominantly about H&S legislation, and I do not want to get this thread closed.

Cheers,
Baz
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Old 10th Jul 2011, 5:14 pm   #5
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Default Re: 13A Plugs old and not so old

Thanks Baz. Please stay on topic folks.
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Old 10th Jul 2011, 5:47 pm   #6
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Default Re: 13A Plugs old and not so old

Volex used to be a brand of Ward & Goldstone I think, who later became WG Electrical, making plugs and fittings under different brand names, I have some GPO branded ones here and think I've seen some MultiBroadcast ones or DER or someone. They also made bits and bobs under the Winfield brand for Woolworths.
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Old 10th Jul 2011, 6:38 pm   #7
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Default Re: 13A Plugs old and not so old

Hi,
I have a few Volex Temco (Later VT) plugs of this design, some with dual screws for the cover and others with only one screw. I suspect that the versions with two screws are the earlier ones.

I have to admit it is the first time I have ever seen one of these plugs in black, which leads me to believe that it may even be a "late copy" made by some far eastern manufacturer

I would also agree with McMurdo that this design of plug may have been "custom branded"; I have certainly seen MK and WG plugs with manufacturers (and rental company) names on them, personally I haven't seen any Volex ones of this type though but that doesn't mean that it didn't happen.

Regards
Andrew
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Old 10th Jul 2011, 8:32 pm   #8
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Default Re: 13A Plugs old and not so old

Quote:
I have to admit it is the first time I have ever seen one of these plugs in black, which leads me to believe that it may even be a "late copy" made by some far eastern manufacturer
IMHO that's unlikely, given the red/black/green colour coding moulded into the plug. I doubt they'd have copied that, or indeed have used two screws where one wouild have done!
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Old 10th Jul 2011, 8:50 pm   #9
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Default Re: 13A Plugs old and not so old

Hi,
I noticed sometime after my comment that the moulding in the plug showed Red, Green and Black for the wiring which suggests that the plug is an original.

The NTA version may have just been a "badge engineered" Volex one then!

Regards
Andrew
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Old 10th Jul 2011, 9:51 pm   #10
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Default Re: 13A Plugs old and not so old

"Thank you" to Jay and Baz. re: your replies: Posts 3 & 4.

Al.
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Old 11th Jul 2011, 7:15 pm   #11
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Default Re: 13A Plugs old and not so old

Thanks for all the replies. It's quite a nice novelty to have 'brand new' brown plugs in pristine condition. I'm sure they'll soon get used up! A vintage appliance with a modern plug always bugs me- a bit like seeing a 50s car with plastic number plates!

I'll get me anorak....

Steve
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Old 11th Jul 2011, 8:01 pm   #12
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Default Re: 13A Plugs old and not so old

I remember that sort of fuse:
Often made without any arc-suppression sand inside and the fuse wire trapped between the relatively loose cap and the outside of the body, making progressively worse contact.
A display item only, preferably with the fuse wire removed!
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Old 11th Jul 2011, 8:17 pm   #13
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Default Re: 13A Plugs old and not so old

I think you are correct, Martin. Is that the fuse wire sticking out from under the top cap on the left?

A question. Why do these plugs (and almost any old plug) have a gap in the moulding above the earth pin, so that when the lid is on, the earth pin can be seen from the top of the plug?

Mark.
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Old 16th Jul 2011, 3:48 am   #14
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Default Re: 13A Plugs old and not so old

I used to wonder why plugs like the above had the hole in the top above the earth pin, and somewhere on this forum I learned why, it's for adding an earth wire to something that has to be earthed, be it a 2-wire appliance, or something near to the socket that needs to be earthed for whatever reason...
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Old 16th Jul 2011, 9:26 am   #15
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Default Re: 13A Plugs old and not so old

I agree with Andrew that the 'NTA' plug is a far-eastern copy of the Volex Temco, hence 'Empire Made', and the uncertified fuse. I found uncertified fuses on sale as recently as the mid 1980s, which like those mentioned by Martin had no silica filling and were clearly incapable of interrupting the fault currents that we often get in modern installations.

There can't be a pre-BS1363 13A square-pin plug because that standard defines the dimensions. However you could make a plug that fits a 13A socket but which does not comply with the standard. It would have been incorrect at the time to mark such a plug with BS1363, although perhaps still legal to sell it. Likewise many of the uncertified fuses didn't claim to be made to BS1362, however there was one brand that had just the number '1362' printed on the body and 'According to 1362' on the packet in French, German and Spanish!

There is still a company in Hong Kong selling UK plugs under the NTA brand, which might be related or not.

Lucien
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Old 11th Sep 2011, 12:57 pm   #16
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Default Re: 13A Plugs old and not so old

I remember a plug, identically styled to the Volex at the start of the thread but branded FALKS.

It's great finding unused old stock period items like this. I have my own story which will be discussed in a different thread.

Brian
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Old 3rd Mar 2012, 9:05 pm   #17
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Default Re: 13A Plugs old and not so old

I believe NTA were making cheap equivalents many years ago. I was using an old engraver today and I replaced the plug as it was a very old and very brittle rubber one. At first I thought it was an old Duraplug one as it looked like the old ones where you have to push the wire through the hole in the lid before wiring the plug. However underneath it announced itself to be NTA. Hope that helps a bit.
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Old 4th Mar 2012, 2:19 pm   #18
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Smile Re: 13A Plugs old and not so old

Hi,
As a kid I often saw plugs marked "Empire Made" that looked at first glance like well known ones like Volex, MK, etc. The fuse holder was often spot welded to the live pin and the cable grip usually disintegrated as soon as you tightened them up. Also, the ends of the terminal screws chewed through the copper strands. And as for the fuses . . . .
No way would they ever carry anything like 13amps!
Cheers, Pete
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Old 4th Mar 2012, 10:04 pm   #19
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Default Re: 13A Plugs old and not so old

I can vouch for the danger of the “Empire Made” fuses fitted to old Empire made plugs and sold in packets as replacements. My parents had bought some plugs of this type circa 1967, and in the early 1970s when I was still living at home, the insulation of the flex of my mother’s iron failed. I heard the bang from the next room [accompanied by a brief dimming of the lights] and found my mother pulling the fizzing plug out of the socket.

The current from the short circuited flex had evidently vaporised the fuse wire, blowing holes in the end caps of the fuse cartridge, and filling the interior of the plug with copper vapour which had transferred the arc to the L and E terminals of the plug. The arc current was evidently not sufficient to blow the 30A ring main fuse, and had my mother not had the presence of mind to pull out the plug before it got too hot to handle [the socket was unswitched], a fire would no doubt have resulted as the socket was behind the curtains. I checked all our plugs and replaced a half dozen or so, which I still have. I pity I threw the damaged plug away.

Fuses of this lethal design were on sale in a supermarket in a rural town in Eire in the early 1990’s.
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Old 5th Mar 2012, 12:27 pm   #20
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Default Re: 13A Plugs old and not so old

Quote:
Originally Posted by twocvbloke View Post
I used to wonder why plugs like the above had the hole in the top above the earth pin, and somewhere on this forum I learned why, it's for adding an earth wire to something that has to be earthed, be it a 2-wire appliance, or something near to the socket that needs to be earthed for whatever reason...
That is certainly one possible explanation, but I was told an alternative.
That the hole was to allow the user of an earthed appliance to verify, without dismantling, that the earth wire was still connected.
Most plugs require that the earth wire be cut longer than the others, but many ommited to do this, thereby leaving the earth wire at risk of pulling out of the earth terminal, especialy if the cord grip was defective or not properly used.
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