UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Powered By Google Custom Search Vintage Radio and TV Service Data

Go Back   UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum > Specific Vintage Equipment > Vintage Audio (record players, hi-fi etc)

Notices

Vintage Audio (record players, hi-fi etc) Amplifiers, speakers, gramophones and other audio equipment.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 6th Dec 2021, 8:40 pm   #1
nightowl
Triode
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Lanarkshire, Scotland, UK.
Posts: 48
Default Age of records?

apart from an obvious date written on the center section, I notice other number codes sometimes with some letters infront , are they just manufacturer batch numbers or similar?
I've just got the wifes grandfathers record collection and some look really old, some have postal stamps on the centers..... some photos of them are attached.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	P1100723.jpg
Views:	184
Size:	97.8 KB
ID:	247416   Click image for larger version

Name:	P1100726.jpg
Views:	201
Size:	98.0 KB
ID:	247417   Click image for larger version

Name:	P1100725.jpg
Views:	180
Size:	93.3 KB
ID:	247418   Click image for larger version

Name:	P1100727.jpg
Views:	164
Size:	85.0 KB
ID:	247419   Click image for larger version

Name:	P1100728.jpg
Views:	171
Size:	78.4 KB
ID:	247420  

nightowl is offline  
Old 6th Dec 2021, 9:04 pm   #2
Edward Huggins
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Southwold, Suffolk, UK.
Posts: 8,302
Default Re: age of records

How long have you got? There are many tomes written about these seemingly obscure, arcane numbers etched into the surface of every record ever made. And those Postal Stamps are actually Tax Payment stamps. Start by seaching out RECORD MATRIX NUMBERS. There's far more to it than you may think!
__________________
Edward.
Edward Huggins is offline  
Old 6th Dec 2021, 10:51 pm   #3
Lucien Nunes
Rest in Peace
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: London, UK.
Posts: 2,508
Default Re: Age of records?

If you go to one of the record cataloguing sites like https://www.45worlds.com/78rpm/ and type in the catalogue number, unless it's an obscure record you are likely to get a reasonably reliable date straight off. Enter the number without any punctuation or spaces and omit the A/B side letter at the end if present.
Lucien Nunes is offline  
Old 6th Dec 2021, 11:30 pm   #4
nightowl
Triode
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Lanarkshire, Scotland, UK.
Posts: 48
Default Re: Age of records?

I'll give both a looksy...tar muchly!
nightowl is offline  
Old 6th Dec 2021, 11:42 pm   #5
mark_in_manc
Octode
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Manchester, UK.
Posts: 1,872
Default Re: Age of records?

What a lot of music shops in a place the size of Halifax!
__________________
"The best dBs, come in 3s" - Woody Brown
mark_in_manc is offline  
Old 7th Dec 2021, 12:04 am   #6
hamid_1
Heptode
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: High Wycombe, Bucks. UK.
Posts: 811
Default Re: Age of records?

Another site I use regularly: Discogs.com
You can type the artist, title or matrix number etc. into the search box and possibly find some information. The database has been built up and added to by thousands of members over the years, but it is by no means complete, especially for 78rpm records like yours. It's worth a try, though.

Other sources of information are old printed record catalogues, if you can get hold of them. From the late 1950s, records usually had the date of publication printed on the label, often indicated by the letter P in a circle, followed by the year. By the time this happened, it was near the end of the 78rpm era, so unfortunately most 78's don't display a date.

The covers can be quite fascinating too. Typically they have old adverts for the shops and the things they used to sell. I suspect yours are from the late 1920s or 1930s, judging by the look of them. The vast majority of those dealers are long gone now, but occasionally I've come across one that's still trading, like Currys bicycles and gramophones - "branches in most towns", now selling TVs and washing machines.
hamid_1 is offline  
Old 7th Dec 2021, 7:17 am   #7
Diabolical Artificer
Dekatron
 
Diabolical Artificer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Sleaford, Lincs. UK.
Posts: 7,636
Default Re: Age of records?

Quote:
Typically they have old adverts for the shops and the things they used to sell
Indeed what's a "Tankard for Pianos and Gramophones" ? Was to this to put your ale in for a good old sing song round the old Joanna? Those covers are an interesting window into the past, like finding old papers in drawers.

Andy.
__________________
Curiosity hasn't killed this cat...so far.
Diabolical Artificer is offline  
Old 7th Dec 2021, 2:27 pm   #8
PaulR
Dekatron
 
PaulR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Southport Lancashire, UK.
Posts: 3,221
Default Re: Age of records?

How did record shops display 78s? In the days of vinyl they often had just the case on display with the record itself held behind the counter. That wouldn't work with 78s because the cases don't show the record itself. Were the records held in racks? If so I wonder what percentage got broken.
__________________
Paul
PaulR is online now  
Old 7th Dec 2021, 2:55 pm   #9
Nickthedentist
Dekatron
 
Nickthedentist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Oxford, UK.
Posts: 17,820
Default Re: Age of records?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulR View Post
How did record shops display 78s? In the days of vinyl they often had just the case on display with the record itself held behind the counter. That wouldn't work with 78s because the cases don't show the record itself. Were the records held in racks? If so I wonder what percentage got broken.
My guess is that in those pre-self-service days, everything was behind the counter and you would have had to ask. The showroom would have contained the radios, gramophones, pianos and so on. There may have been posters advertising new releases, I suppose.

But that's all speculation on my part, and I've love to know the real answer.
Nickthedentist is online now  
Old 7th Dec 2021, 3:03 pm   #10
Ted Kendall
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Kington, Herefordshire, UK.
Posts: 3,657
Default Re: Age of records?

There was some self service even in the 1930s - Humphrey Lyttelton recalled hitting the local record shop on the first Saturday of every month with his jazz-mad chums and getting under the feet of other customers as they sought out the new releases.
Ted Kendall is offline  
Old 7th Dec 2021, 5:31 pm   #11
dave walsh
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Ramsbottom (Nr Bury) Lancs or Bexhill (Nr Hastings) Sussex.
Posts: 5,814
Default Re: Age of records?

As a small child in the fifties, circa 54/5, I can recall being in the Record shop on Princess Street [Bury]. I think we were after a particular 78? It was a very utilitarian place-no frills or bright colours just a lot of plywood. You did usually have to ask for what you wanted rather than looking through the stock which was kept behind the counter in wooden racks. The covers shown in the photos are of much older recordings. Although some later fifties records came with new "pop" paper covers, it was not unusual to be given the 78's in a plain brown paper bag-matching the decor! I'm guessing we were there because my Uncle George had a Butcher's shop a few doors away.

In 1966 I was working at a dry cleaners in Cheetham Hill Manchester, during the holidays [the long hot summer]. My "boss" was about 23 but not very "with" it for his age. He knew the chap who had a record shop near Victoria Station though. Did I want anything bringing back? Oh yes, the new Bob Dylan double LP please [with the now classic fold out, out of focus, Dylan photo on the cover!] He came back with just the two LP's in a brown paper bag. You're not bothered about the cover are you?

He was a bit surprised by my reaction and dashed back to get it for me!

Dave W

Last edited by dave walsh; 7th Dec 2021 at 5:36 pm.
dave walsh is offline  
Old 8th Dec 2021, 1:28 am   #12
nightowl
Triode
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Lanarkshire, Scotland, UK.
Posts: 48
Default Re: Age of records?

just been trying a few out today, all bar 1 play fine (soft tone needles are louder than I thought they would be!) and been figuring out how many turns for playing 1 side on the 10 n 12's (35-45 it seems).
nightowl is offline  
Old 8th Dec 2021, 10:19 am   #13
rontech
Heptode
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Southport, Merseyside, UK.
Posts: 646
Default Re: Age of records?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulR View Post
How did record shops display 78s? In the days of vinyl they often had just the case on display with the record itself held behind the counter. That wouldn't work with 78s because the cases don't show the record itself. Were the records held in racks? If so I wonder what percentage got broken.
I seem to remember that they had the 78s in racks behind the counter. There were posters on the wall behind for the latest pop hits. You had to ask for the title or catalogue number .
Also each record company would issue a thick catalogue with both current and many back catalogue items with the identifier number.

If you wished,you could listen to a record in a booth, the record was played from behind the counter, loudspeaker in the booth.

Back in the day in Southport, there James Smith, Wayfarers, in LordSt;
Aldridges in Hoghton St and Allan Smith in Eastbank St.
__________________
Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana
rontech is offline  
Old 8th Dec 2021, 11:42 pm   #14
jamesperrett
Octode
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Liss, Hampshire, UK.
Posts: 1,870
Default Re: Age of records?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulR View Post
If so I wonder what percentage got broken.
Certainly up until recently record contracts allowed for 10% breakages. The artist would only be paid for 90% of the records sold.
jamesperrett is offline  
Old 9th Dec 2021, 8:05 am   #15
Diabolical Artificer
Dekatron
 
Diabolical Artificer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Sleaford, Lincs. UK.
Posts: 7,636
Default Re: Age of records?

Still intrigued to know what "tankards for piano's and gramophones" refers to, surely it can't be for a beer tankard. I looked up "tankard" in a few dictionary's, some, old editions, they all say "one handed drinking vessel" but I can't see respectable middle class folk scooping ale while Mother plays the latest show tune. Also if it is indeed for beer, how does a piano or gramophone tankard differ to an ordinary one? Soft felt coaster attached? But how does one put a tankard on a gramophone?

Any ideas welcome, Andy.
__________________
Curiosity hasn't killed this cat...so far.
Diabolical Artificer is offline  
Old 9th Dec 2021, 8:18 am   #16
Lucien Nunes
Rest in Peace
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: London, UK.
Posts: 2,508
Default Re: Age of records?

Surely the clue is the apostrophe: The shop that sold the record is called "Tankard's" presumably run by a Mr. Tankard.
Lucien Nunes is offline  
Old 9th Dec 2021, 8:55 am   #17
Station X
Moderator
 
Station X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Ipswich, Suffolk, IP4, UK.
Posts: 21,192
Default Re: Age of records?

Indeed. at the back of the stack is "ROBINSON'S".
__________________
Graham. Forum Moderator

Reach for your meter before you reach for your soldering iron.
Station X is online now  
Old 9th Dec 2021, 10:02 am   #18
ben
Dekatron
 
ben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Madrid, Spain / Wirral, UK
Posts: 7,484
Default Re: Age of records?

Judging by the labels, I'd date those records at late '30s to early '50s.
__________________
Regards,
Ben.
ben is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 2:51 pm.


All information and advice on this forum is subject to the WARNING AND DISCLAIMER located at https://www.vintage-radio.net/rules.html.
Failure to heed this warning may result in death or serious injury to yourself and/or others.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2002 - 2023, Paul Stenning.