Reluctant remote control buttons. - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

red16v · 28th Nov 2018, 10:47 am

The usual thing, after heavy use some buttons become reluctant to work. I think this is due to repeated use of the same buttons.

My understanding is that in a typical remote control, the rubber pad under the button is 'doped' with carbon or some such so that when pressed it bridges a circuit feeding a button encoder etc. I gather after time the 'dope' gets abraded away due to constant use.

In my workshop days I recall we had a tin of conductive 'stuff' that you could delicately paint on worn out rubber pads to restore the button's functionality - for a while anyway.

Does anyone know what this 'stuff' was called and if there is a modern equivalent and where I might get some? I wonder in todays throwaway society if people just chuck these away and buy a replacement, but I would like to get ours going again if I can.

boxdoctor · 28th Nov 2018, 11:10 am

My usual routine with recalcitrant remote control buttons is to dismantle the remote control, and very gently wash the P.C.B. and rubber keypad in warm soapy water. Then thoroughly dry with a non-fluffy cotton cloth, and leave on a warm surface to completely dry-out for an hour or two.
Inspect, and if you're satisfied that it is all completely dry, re-assemble and test.
In about 99% of cases, this will do the trick, and normal functioning will return.
If this fails to cure the afflicted buttons, purchase some of this conductive paint from R.S., Part nr. 101-5621, and apply a small dab to the conductive pad on each button on the keypad. Makes a long-lasting repair. Tony.

McMurdo · 28th Nov 2018, 1:25 pm

I'd had problems with contacts on my burglar alarm keypad, (its 20 years old now!) and I used Chemtronics 'flex' silver paint that comes in a pen. It's actually designed for repairing FFC ribbons but works well on the rubber pimples.

A few years ago I went over it with a 2-part graphite paint from the same company called Circuitworks Rubber Keypad repair kit, that was very expensive, (nearly £30 a pot), came with a little brush and hardener, but it flaked off after a year or so.

Nymrod121 · 28th Nov 2018, 1:29 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by boxdoctor

My usual routine with recalcitrant remote control buttons is to dismantle the remote control, and very gently wash the P.C.B. and rubber keypad in warm soapy water. Then thoroughly dry with a non-fluffy cotton cloth, and leave on a warm surface to completely dry-out for an hour or two.
Inspect, and if you're satisfied that it is all completely dry, re-assemble and test.
In about 99% of cases, this will do the trick, and normal functioning will return.

Yes, this method has helped revive several Sky (and more recently, Humax Freesat) remotes here...

Quote:

If this fails to cure the afflicted buttons, purchase some of this conductive paint from R.S., Part nr. 101-5621, and apply a small dab to the conductive pad on each button on the keypad. Makes a long-lasting repair. Tony.

Another useful tip! - thanks, Tony

Guy

red16v · 28th Nov 2018, 5:25 pm

Thank you for the tips. I will give the warm water bath a go and revert to the RS product if that is not successful.

kan_turk · 28th Nov 2018, 7:03 pm

A search for ‘keypad repair’ on ebay will yield a number of options, some of which I have used successfully in the past eg partially conductive paint

Rgds

J

Lloyd 1985 · 28th Nov 2018, 10:17 pm

Our old Sony tv remote has been suffering for a number of years, washing did cure it in the beginning. Some sort of liquid comes out of the rubber of the keypad on that one, and it is a good insulator!

I did a quick fix on my Nan’s Virgin TV remote, the rubber pad had lost all conductivity, so I found a bit of stiff wire and stitched it into the rubber pad! Worked a treat

might do the same to the Sony, but with thinner wire.

Regards
Lloyd

AJSmith625 · 28th Nov 2018, 11:13 pm

A bit of a fiddly job, but I have had some success in the past by glueing small discs of aluminium foil on the worn out pimples on the rubber keypad. I stamp out the appropriate size disc using a piece of sawn off section from an old damaged telescopic aerial to get the diameter I want. I find quick setting Araldite better than super glue, for a more lasting job. OK if you have only a few buttons to fix.

Alan

ben · 28th Nov 2018, 11:46 pm

I also recommend washing first. You tend to find that there's a sticky substance between the rubber pads and the pcb traces. It usually seems to be a mixture of oils from handling, beverage spillage, and rubber leeching (I seem to recall it happening even on remotes that were never used, suggesting some chemical breakdown was going on).

For what it is worth, here is my method.

One thing it is vital to remember is to wash all the parts extremely thoroughly. If you wipe a q tip around the holes/ button gaps in the upper plastic case, you will find all kinds of muck coming out. Unless this is removed, the button action is sluggish and the crud will find its way back down to the contacts. I like to do this with the plastic body in warm water. Start with an old toothbrush to remove the easy stuff, then move on to the q tips.

Next, take the rubber pad. First clean the upper part between the keys, usually there's very visible muck there (toothbrush and then q tips for the narrower areas). Then flip it over. Pushing the buttons (gently) will expose the nooks and crannies around the actual conductive spot - grime hides there too, so get the q tips on it. You'll be amazed at the gunk that hides there when you see it on your q tip. Removal here is in fact more important, due to proximity to the contacts.

Finally give the pcb a wipe over with a folded over piece of kitchen roll lightly moistened , if very dirty or oily add a small drop of liquid soap to it. Pay special attention to the well- used keys like volume and channel and power. Don't rub too hard, or you'll remove/harm the conductive areas.

I like to test the remotes before total reassembly by placing the pcb and its battery terminals into the lower half, inserting batteries, then sitting the rubber pad on top and testing operation. If all goes well you can reassemble the upper part of the body.

I have used this method for decades and found it to be very reliable. Only on a few mangled remotes did I need to use conductive paint and foil spots.

TCSC1947 · 29th Nov 2018, 12:26 am

I have not used WD40 on the type of keypad found in remotes, but I have used it on a class set of variable power supply control pots to eek out their life when no time and personnel to replace all the pots. The pots had become noisy causing the output voltage of the supplies to jump about when adjusted.

The reason it works is because of quantum tunnelling (!) but it certainly does work. However as we all know WD40 is a wax dissolved in a solvent which will evaporate after a year or so. This was observed by the pots returning to a noisy state after a year and I did have to spend the time replacing some 50 pots! But at least WD40 got me out of a hole temporarily.

Has anybody tried WD40 on remotes?

AJSmith625 · 29th Nov 2018, 12:50 am

I should have said in my post #8 that this method is only for when a remote handset won't respond to cleaning as described by others.

Alan

ben · 29th Nov 2018, 3:45 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by TCSC1947

Has anybody tried WD40 on remotes?

No, and do not intend to! Never needed to try it, see above.
WD40 may give a temporary reprieve to pots, but I cannot see how it would help de-gunk dirty remotes. It would likely add to the problem over time and may even attack the rubber and other parts.

John M0GLN · 29th Nov 2018, 9:03 am

I bought a Marantz AV receiver which had a dodgy remote, the seller did warn me and I found quite a few buttons didn't work at all, now having spent my life taking fiddly things apart and never being able to re-assemble them I searched on Google and found a chap who repaired them on a 'no fix no fee' basis who lived quite near, I took it to him and returned about an hour later and it was done, remains of a previous spilt drink all cleaned up and conductive paint applied where necessary and it works fine now, it cost £20 which compared with the £130 price of the cheapest manufacturers replacement I could find wasn't too bad I thought.

John

KeithsTV · 29th Nov 2018, 9:48 am

We have a remote controlled garage door and the remote control I have has four buttons each of which can be programmed to open/close the door but initially only one button was set up. It worked during the guarantee period but became increasingly erratic shortly afterwards. I programmed one of the other buttons to operate the door which worked until that button stopped working. Subsequently the other two buttons had to be programmed until all four buttons became very erratic. I suspected either dirt on the contacts or the button contacts were worn.

The control appeared to be well sealed but eventually I managed to get the case open and found all the contact areas covered in dust. A quick clean with a brush and some IPA and it was working. However it stopped working recently which I found was due to a dirty battery contact.

Although it appeared to be sealed it is possible for dust to get it and it probably doesn't help that it spends most of its life in my pocket!

It's been worth finding out how to open it up and clean it as new controls are around £80.

Keith

Rubberfingers · 29th Nov 2018, 10:16 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by AJSmith625

A bit of a fiddly job, but I have had some success in the past by glueing small discs of aluminium foil on the worn out pimples on the rubber keypad. I stamp out the appropriate size disc using a piece of sawn off section from an old damaged telescopic aerial to get the diameter I want. I find quick setting Araldite better than super glue, for a more lasting job. OK if you have only a few buttons to fix.

I've done the same, but I made the aluminium discs using an office paper hole punch.

mark pirate · 29th Nov 2018, 12:05 pm

My method is to disassemble the remote, scrub both sides of the rubber keypad with fairy liquid and dry thoroughly.
I clean the circuit board contacts with Servisol and wipe dry.

The plastic case also gets the fairy liquid & toothbrush treatment, then the remote gets reassembled, and usually works as new.

The worst remotes are those that have suffered from battery leakage, I have had many where the tracks have corroded, sometimes the damage is to a small area and can be bridged with thin wire, but some are so bad that components are rotted and beyond repair.

Avoid using cheap batteries, and always remove batteries when not in regular use!

Mark

Outrun_uk · 29th Nov 2018, 12:50 pm

This works for keymat repairs on remotes :-

https://cpc.farnell.com/bare-conduct...ectric%20paint

A small dab on the faulty buttons and leave to dry.

HTH,

Kev

red16v · 1st Dec 2018, 11:17 am

Just a quick update. I've disassembled the remote (its for a Humax Freesat box) and cleaned all the pads with isopropyl in the first instance using a cotton bud. There has been an immediate and satisfactory improvement in the action of the affected buttons.

I will see how long this improvement lasts for, otherwise I will definitely consider the conductive paste/glue approach. Thanks once again to all.

28th Nov 2018, 10:47 am	#1
red16v Heptode Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Winchester, Hampshire, UK. Posts: 638	Reluctant remote control buttons. The usual thing, after heavy use some buttons become reluctant to work. I think this is due to repeated use of the same buttons. My understanding is that in a typical remote control, the rubber pad under the button is 'doped' with carbon or some such so that when pressed it bridges a circuit feeding a button encoder etc. I gather after time the 'dope' gets abraded away due to constant use. In my workshop days I recall we had a tin of conductive 'stuff' that you could delicately paint on worn out rubber pads to restore the button's functionality - for a while anyway. Does anyone know what this 'stuff' was called and if there is a modern equivalent and where I might get some? I wonder in todays throwaway society if people just chuck these away and buy a replacement, but I would like to get ours going again if I can.

28th Nov 2018, 11:10 am	#2
boxdoctor Rest in Peace Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Ripley, Derbyshire, UK. Posts: 785	Re: Reluctant remote control buttons. My usual routine with recalcitrant remote control buttons is to dismantle the remote control, and very gently wash the P.C.B. and rubber keypad in warm soapy water. Then thoroughly dry with a non-fluffy cotton cloth, and leave on a warm surface to completely dry-out for an hour or two. Inspect, and if you're satisfied that it is all completely dry, re-assemble and test. In about 99% of cases, this will do the trick, and normal functioning will return. If this fails to cure the afflicted buttons, purchase some of this conductive paint from R.S., Part nr. 101-5621, and apply a small dab to the conductive pad on each button on the keypad. Makes a long-lasting repair. Tony.

28th Nov 2018, 1:25 pm	#3
McMurdo Dekatron Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Staffordshire Moorlands, UK. Posts: 5,271	Re: Reluctant remote control buttons. I'd had problems with contacts on my burglar alarm keypad, (its 20 years old now!) and I used Chemtronics 'flex' silver paint that comes in a pen. It's actually designed for repairing FFC ribbons but works well on the rubber pimples. A few years ago I went over it with a 2-part graphite paint from the same company called Circuitworks Rubber Keypad repair kit, that was very expensive, (nearly £30 a pot), came with a little brush and hardener, but it flaked off after a year or so. __________________ Kevin

28th Nov 2018, 5:25 pm	#5
red16v Heptode Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Winchester, Hampshire, UK. Posts: 638	Re: Reluctant remote control buttons. Thank you for the tips. I will give the warm water bath a go and revert to the RS product if that is not successful.

28th Nov 2018, 7:03 pm	#6
kan_turk Hexode Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Dublin, Ireland Posts: 398	Re: Reluctant remote control buttons. A search for ‘keypad repair’ on ebay will yield a number of options, some of which I have used successfully in the past eg partially conductive paint Rgds J

28th Nov 2018, 10:17 pm	#7
Lloyd 1985 Nonode Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Coningsby, Lincolnshire, UK. Posts: 2,819	Re: Reluctant remote control buttons. Our old Sony tv remote has been suffering for a number of years, washing did cure it in the beginning. Some sort of liquid comes out of the rubber of the keypad on that one, and it is a good insulator! I did a quick fix on my Nan’s Virgin TV remote, the rubber pad had lost all conductivity, so I found a bit of stiff wire and stitched it into the rubber pad! Worked a treat might do the same to the Sony, but with thinner wire. Regards Lloyd

28th Nov 2018, 11:13 pm	#8
AJSmith625 Pentode Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Birmingham, West Midlands, UK. Posts: 171	Re: Reluctant remote control buttons. A bit of a fiddly job, but I have had some success in the past by glueing small discs of aluminium foil on the worn out pimples on the rubber keypad. I stamp out the appropriate size disc using a piece of sawn off section from an old damaged telescopic aerial to get the diameter I want. I find quick setting Araldite better than super glue, for a more lasting job. OK if you have only a few buttons to fix. Alan

28th Nov 2018, 11:46 pm	#9
ben Dekatron Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Madrid, Spain / Wirral, UK Posts: 7,498	Re: Reluctant remote control buttons. I also recommend washing first. You tend to find that there's a sticky substance between the rubber pads and the pcb traces. It usually seems to be a mixture of oils from handling, beverage spillage, and rubber leeching (I seem to recall it happening even on remotes that were never used, suggesting some chemical breakdown was going on). For what it is worth, here is my method. One thing it is vital to remember is to wash all the parts extremely thoroughly. If you wipe a q tip around the holes/ button gaps in the upper plastic case, you will find all kinds of muck coming out. Unless this is removed, the button action is sluggish and the crud will find its way back down to the contacts. I like to do this with the plastic body in warm water. Start with an old toothbrush to remove the easy stuff, then move on to the q tips. Next, take the rubber pad. First clean the upper part between the keys, usually there's very visible muck there (toothbrush and then q tips for the narrower areas). Then flip it over. Pushing the buttons (gently) will expose the nooks and crannies around the actual conductive spot - grime hides there too, so get the q tips on it. You'll be amazed at the gunk that hides there when you see it on your q tip. Removal here is in fact more important, due to proximity to the contacts. Finally give the pcb a wipe over with a folded over piece of kitchen roll lightly moistened , if very dirty or oily add a small drop of liquid soap to it. Pay special attention to the well- used keys like volume and channel and power. Don't rub too hard, or you'll remove/harm the conductive areas. I like to test the remotes before total reassembly by placing the pcb and its battery terminals into the lower half, inserting batteries, then sitting the rubber pad on top and testing operation. If all goes well you can reassemble the upper part of the body. I have used this method for decades and found it to be very reliable. Only on a few mangled remotes did I need to use conductive paint and foil spots. __________________ Regards, Ben.

29th Nov 2018, 12:26 am	#10
TCSC1947 Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Warwickshire, UK. Posts: 7	Re: Reluctant remote control buttons. I have not used WD40 on the type of keypad found in remotes, but I have used it on a class set of variable power supply control pots to eek out their life when no time and personnel to replace all the pots. The pots had become noisy causing the output voltage of the supplies to jump about when adjusted. The reason it works is because of quantum tunnelling (!) but it certainly does work. However as we all know WD40 is a wax dissolved in a solvent which will evaporate after a year or so. This was observed by the pots returning to a noisy state after a year and I did have to spend the time replacing some 50 pots! But at least WD40 got me out of a hole temporarily. Has anybody tried WD40 on remotes?

29th Nov 2018, 12:50 am	#11
AJSmith625 Pentode Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Birmingham, West Midlands, UK. Posts: 171	Re: Reluctant remote control buttons. I should have said in my post #8 that this method is only for when a remote handset won't respond to cleaning as described by others. Alan

29th Nov 2018, 9:03 am	#13
John M0GLN Octode Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Southport, Merseyside, UK. Posts: 1,156	Re: Reluctant remote control buttons. I bought a Marantz AV receiver which had a dodgy remote, the seller did warn me and I found quite a few buttons didn't work at all, now having spent my life taking fiddly things apart and never being able to re-assemble them I searched on Google and found a chap who repaired them on a 'no fix no fee' basis who lived quite near, I took it to him and returned about an hour later and it was done, remains of a previous spilt drink all cleaned up and conductive paint applied where necessary and it works fine now, it cost £20 which compared with the £130 price of the cheapest manufacturers replacement I could find wasn't too bad I thought. John

29th Nov 2018, 9:48 am	#14
KeithsTV Nonode Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: South Bradford, West Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 2,573	Re: Reluctant remote control buttons. We have a remote controlled garage door and the remote control I have has four buttons each of which can be programmed to open/close the door but initially only one button was set up. It worked during the guarantee period but became increasingly erratic shortly afterwards. I programmed one of the other buttons to operate the door which worked until that button stopped working. Subsequently the other two buttons had to be programmed until all four buttons became very erratic. I suspected either dirt on the contacts or the button contacts were worn. The control appeared to be well sealed but eventually I managed to get the case open and found all the contact areas covered in dust. A quick clean with a brush and some IPA and it was working. However it stopped working recently which I found was due to a dirty battery contact. Although it appeared to be sealed it is possible for dust to get it and it probably doesn't help that it spends most of its life in my pocket! It's been worth finding out how to open it up and clean it as new controls are around £80. Keith

29th Nov 2018, 12:05 pm	#16
mark pirate Dekatron Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Worthing, West Sussex, UK Posts: 5,185	Re: Reluctant remote control buttons. My method is to disassemble the remote, scrub both sides of the rubber keypad with fairy liquid and dry thoroughly. I clean the circuit board contacts with Servisol and wipe dry. The plastic case also gets the fairy liquid & toothbrush treatment, then the remote gets reassembled, and usually works as new. The worst remotes are those that have suffered from battery leakage, I have had many where the tracks have corroded, sometimes the damage is to a small area and can be bridged with thin wire, but some are so bad that components are rotted and beyond repair. Avoid using cheap batteries, and always remove batteries when not in regular use! Mark

29th Nov 2018, 12:50 pm	#17
Outrun_uk Heptode Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Liverpool, Merseyside, UK. Posts: 705	Re: Reluctant remote control buttons. This works for keymat repairs on remotes :- https://cpc.farnell.com/bare-conduct...ectric%20paint A small dab on the faulty buttons and leave to dry. HTH, Kev

1st Dec 2018, 11:17 am	#18
red16v Heptode Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Winchester, Hampshire, UK. Posts: 638	Re: Reluctant remote control buttons. Just a quick update. I've disassembled the remote (its for a Humax Freesat box) and cleaned all the pads with isopropyl in the first instance using a cotton bud. There has been an immediate and satisfactory improvement in the action of the affected buttons. I will see how long this improvement lasts for, otherwise I will definitely consider the conductive paste/glue approach. Thanks once again to all.