PL509 / PL519 - which? - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

Steve_P · 25th May 2007, 4:54 pm

Simple question. Will a PL519 go in place of a PL509? Someone or something in my head (Brain, maybe!) says Yes, but thought I'd better check.

Note to self - Find someone with a few PL509's and be nice....

Cheers,

Steve P

Mike Phelan · 25th May 2007, 5:01 pm

Steve
I am fairly sure that I have swapped about these either way with not a care in the world!
I believe there are a few minor changes in the ratings, but they both do the same job using the same sort of CRTs.

ppppenguin · 25th May 2007, 5:08 pm

ISTR the PL519 was a slightly uprated version of the PL509. Loads of data sheet links via TDSL (Duncan's Amps) if you want to do the detail.

Steve_P · 25th May 2007, 7:07 pm

Thanks guys. Here's hoping...

Cheers,

Steve P

Stewart · 25th May 2007, 8:20 pm

I understood that the PL519 was a slightly uprated PL509, as ppppenguin says, intended for 110 degree colour sets instead of the more common (at least in the UK) 90 degree sets.

There's certainly no problem fitting a 519 where a 509 should go...but a 509 will struggle if fitted in some wondeful 110 degree monster!

MALC SCOTT · 25th May 2007, 8:25 pm

Hi, most continental sets used the PL519. It is rated at 35W. The PL509 is rated at 30W. The very first colour sets used a PL505. The PL509 took over from this. Hope this helps. Cheers, Malc.

Focus Diode · 25th May 2007, 9:14 pm

As mentioned the PL519 is an uprated version of the PL509. The PL519 must be used in 110 degree type sets, such as the Kuba Florence for example. The standard PL509 won't do and it's been reported fitting one can cause a burn up. This can apply if a valve branded PL509/19 is fitted.

Thankfully in UK sets the PL509 is the norm. The PL519 can be fitted in place without problems. With the G6 I was advised to fit a PL519 in place of a PL509 for greater reliability.

Relating to the query, whatever happened to the PL505? Did they ever exist in the first place?

Cheers,
Brian

PS: Just seen Malc's answer re the PL505!

ppppenguin · 25th May 2007, 9:18 pm

Here's the only sensible data I can find on the PL505. Looks like Philips/Mullard abandoned the type number pretty quickly.

http://www.mif.pg.gda.pl/homepages/f...10/p/PL505.pdf

I suppose it made sense as coming immediately after the PL504 monochrome LOP bottle. ISTR the PL504 was derived from the PL500.

Mike Phelan · 26th May 2007, 8:26 am

I am sure there was a PL505 in the first Baird 700s. We used a lot of the Pinnacle PL509/519 labelled valves in the 110 degree Kubas and Luxors, and there were no problems, but I appreciate Brian's comments that there might have been.
I suppose the efficiency or otherwise of the entire line OP stage is a factor.

Focus Diode · 26th May 2007, 8:35 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Phelan

I am sure there was a PL505 in the first Baird 700s. We used a lot of the Pinnacle PL509/519 labelled valves in the 110 degree Kubas and Luxors, and there were no problems

I guess it must depend on the brand. I should've said some valves marked PL509/519, possibly some unbranded ones. This is not something I have personal experience of ,only from what I remember reading in "Television".

Valve compatability would make an interesting thread!

Cheers,
Brian

Studio263 · 26th May 2007, 9:30 am

At the risk of offending the moderators (sorry in advance) has anyone else noticed that a few TV valves seem to have two numbers? For example:

PCL85/805?
EY86/87?

The former I can understand, they are just suggesting reverse compatibility (though I think we could work that out for ourselves...)
The latter is more interesting. The difference between an EY86 and an EY87 is that the former is of "plain" glass and the latter is treated with silicone to prevent flashover under humid conditions (hence the horrible black sticky mess you often find all over them). It is clear that this treatment is either applied or it isn't, so what's an EY86/87, did they only do half of it?

FERNSEH · 26th May 2007, 11:01 am

The 35watt PL519 can certainly be used as a replacement for the 30watt PL509.
With regard to the PL505, my 1967 GEC 2028 was fitted with this valve, it lasted for two years and was replaced with the PL509.

According to information on the radiomuseum website The PL505 has an anode dissipation of 25watts. It was introduced in 1966.
http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_pl505.html

Concerning the PCL85 and PCL805. There might be slight differences between the valves but I think the main reason for the recode was to bring the valve into the Pro-Electron valve coding system.

DFWB.

yagosaga · 26th May 2007, 11:45 am

Two PL505s were in the first generation Telefunken PALcolor 708, made in 1966 and in spring of 1967. The later PALcolors were fitted with the PL509.
In the Philips K8D, there were two PL519s with two PY500As.

Cheers,
Eckhard

Hybrid tellies · 26th May 2007, 9:30 pm

The PCL805 was introduced to contend with the higher flyback voltages found in the frame stage of the Philips 210/300 mono set. Its strange that despite Philips and Mullard being in the same group, Philips were the only ones to design a set the overstretched the reasonably trusty PCL85. I would imagine that caused a few red faces!
Another valve that was bought in to deal with the higher EHT voltages found in later mono sets was the DY802, to replace the DY87.
Going back to the PL509/519 topic, as has been said the PL519 was introduced to contend with the higher power required by 110 degree tubes as used by some continental sets, but they were also used as a more robust replacement for the PL509 in most UK sets. At Radio Rentals they insisted that only Mullard PL519's were to be used in their Korting 8750 hybrid telly which used the 90 degree A56-120X crt.

Tazman1966 · 26th May 2007, 10:12 pm

Steve.

Watford Valves of Bricket Wood near Watford have a large stock of NOS "Tungsram" branded PL509 valves and NOS "Siemens" branded PL519 valves as well

.

I did enquire as to whether I could drop in with my cash to pick up a couple of them and avoid the postage as I drive through Bricket Wood every day to get to work but they said that it would not be possible - no callers

.

They tend to cater mainly for the audio fraternity.

All the best,

Steve_P · 26th May 2007, 10:58 pm

I think I'll stick to Mullard Ones. Although I have yet to see how a Line Output Pentode can be successfully used in this way and it to sound Good! They operate as a switch in a way - the slope is put in by the inductance of the Line Transformer.

Look here: http://www.oldtellys.co.uk/otindex.html and click on the Line Timebase and EHT section.

So why do they fetch these sort of prices?

http://www.watfordvalves.com/product_detail.asp?id=1632

Cheers,

Steve P

Herald1360 · 28th May 2007, 9:23 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve_P

So why do they fetch these sort of prices?

http://www.watfordvalves.com/product_detail.asp?id=1632

Cheers,

Steve P

Audiophool alert??

Seriously- 30 odd watts anode dissipation rating is up there with EL34's etc so if the linear use distortion is reasonable, then they're interesting to the valve amp fraternity. They are (or were?) a lot cheaper, too. The reference mentions OTL circuits (output transformerless) so possibly heater - cathode insulation ratings are usefully high. (A byproduct of design for series heater operation perhaps?).

Weren't they also of interest to the amateur radio world as cheap PA bottles for home brewed linear amplifiers?

Chris

Hybrid tellies · 28th May 2007, 1:59 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herald1360

Audiophool alert??

Weren't they also of interest to the amateur radio world as cheap PA bottles for home brewed linear amplifiers?

Chris

Hi Chris
I think you are right, I seem to remember a group of young radio amateur's running around Bath doing a field test on the 4m (70Mhz) band. They were using a home made transmitter which used a single PL509. This was a few years ago and I am not sure about legality of these tests, especially as they were using AM, but they were getting enough watts out of the transmitter to get right across the city using only using modest aerials. Apparently they ran quite a few lengthy tests and the PL509 (which had been rescued from a scrap colour set) showed no sign of strain and seem very happy in its new role.

Welsh Anorak · 30th May 2007, 9:57 pm

Hi
I remember seeing a Bush CTV25 with a PL505 in it in the mid-seventies when I was annoying my local TV shop (as usual).
I had to look twice as I'd never heard of them, but I've looked in the CTV25 manual (MkI) and there it is!
Why it then became the 509 and not the 506 is anyone's guess.....
And yes - there was a valve audio amp design in the eighties that used 'the inexpensive PL509' - it could even have been via Maplin when they did that sort of thing.

Glyn

25th May 2007, 4:54 pm	#1
Steve_P Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bolton, Greater Manchester, UK. Posts: 6,644	PL509 / PL519 - which? Simple question. Will a PL519 go in place of a PL509? Someone or something in my head (Brain, maybe!) says Yes, but thought I'd better check. Note to self - Find someone with a few PL509's and be nice.... Cheers, Steve P __________________ If we've always had it, why is the Car Boot open? You're not sneaking another Old TV in are you...?

25th May 2007, 5:01 pm	#2
Mike Phelan Dekatron Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Near Leeds, West Yorkshire, UK Posts: 4,609	Re: Pl509 / Pl519 Steve I am fairly sure that I have swapped about these either way with not a care in the world! I believe there are a few minor changes in the ratings, but they both do the same job using the same sort of CRTs. __________________ Mike.

25th May 2007, 5:08 pm	#3
ppppenguin Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: North London, UK. Posts: 6,168	Re: Pl509 / Pl519 ISTR the PL519 was a slightly uprated version of the PL509. Loads of data sheet links via TDSL (Duncan's Amps) if you want to do the detail.

25th May 2007, 7:07 pm	#4
Steve_P Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bolton, Greater Manchester, UK. Posts: 6,644	Re: Pl509 / Pl519 Thanks guys. Here's hoping... Cheers, Steve P __________________ If we've always had it, why is the Car Boot open? You're not sneaking another Old TV in are you...?

25th May 2007, 8:20 pm	#5
Stewart Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: N.E. Surrey, UK. Posts: 361	Re: Pl509 / Pl519 I understood that the PL519 was a slightly uprated PL509, as ppppenguin says, intended for 110 degree colour sets instead of the more common (at least in the UK) 90 degree sets. There's certainly no problem fitting a 519 where a 509 should go...but a 509 will struggle if fitted in some wondeful 110 degree monster!

25th May 2007, 8:25 pm	#6
MALC SCOTT Octode Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Willington, County Durham, UK. Posts: 1,499	Re: Pl509 / Pl519 Hi, most continental sets used the PL519. It is rated at 35W. The PL509 is rated at 30W. The very first colour sets used a PL505. The PL509 took over from this. Hope this helps. Cheers, Malc. __________________ Malc Scott

25th May 2007, 9:14 pm	#7
Focus Diode Octode Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Borough of Gateshead, UK. Posts: 1,420	Re: Pl509 / Pl519 As mentioned the PL519 is an uprated version of the PL509. The PL519 must be used in 110 degree type sets, such as the Kuba Florence for example. The standard PL509 won't do and it's been reported fitting one can cause a burn up. This can apply if a valve branded PL509/19 is fitted. Thankfully in UK sets the PL509 is the norm. The PL519 can be fitted in place without problems. With the G6 I was advised to fit a PL519 in place of a PL509 for greater reliability. Relating to the query, whatever happened to the PL505? Did they ever exist in the first place? Cheers, Brian PS: Just seen Malc's answer re the PL505! Last edited by Focus Diode; 25th May 2007 at 9:16 pm. Reason: Added PS

25th May 2007, 9:18 pm	#8
ppppenguin Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: North London, UK. Posts: 6,168	Re: Pl509 / Pl519 Here's the only sensible data I can find on the PL505. Looks like Philips/Mullard abandoned the type number pretty quickly. http://www.mif.pg.gda.pl/homepages/f...10/p/PL505.pdf I suppose it made sense as coming immediately after the PL504 monochrome LOP bottle. ISTR the PL504 was derived from the PL500.

26th May 2007, 8:26 am	#9
Mike Phelan Dekatron Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Near Leeds, West Yorkshire, UK Posts: 4,609	Re: Pl509 / Pl519 I am sure there was a PL505 in the first Baird 700s. We used a lot of the Pinnacle PL509/519 labelled valves in the 110 degree Kubas and Luxors, and there were no problems, but I appreciate Brian's comments that there might have been. I suppose the efficiency or otherwise of the entire line OP stage is a factor. __________________ Mike.

26th May 2007, 9:30 am	#11
Studio263 Octode Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Hampshire, UK. Posts: 1,577	Re: Pl509 / Pl519 At the risk of offending the moderators (sorry in advance) has anyone else noticed that a few TV valves seem to have two numbers? For example: PCL85/805? EY86/87? The former I can understand, they are just suggesting reverse compatibility (though I think we could work that out for ourselves...) The latter is more interesting. The difference between an EY86 and an EY87 is that the former is of "plain" glass and the latter is treated with silicone to prevent flashover under humid conditions (hence the horrible black sticky mess you often find all over them). It is clear that this treatment is either applied or it isn't, so what's an EY86/87, did they only do half of it?

26th May 2007, 11:01 am	#12
FERNSEH Dekatron Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Gateshead, Tyne and Wear, UK. Posts: 7,444	Re: Pl509 / Pl519 The 35watt PL519 can certainly be used as a replacement for the 30watt PL509. With regard to the PL505, my 1967 GEC 2028 was fitted with this valve, it lasted for two years and was replaced with the PL509. According to information on the radiomuseum website The PL505 has an anode dissipation of 25watts. It was introduced in 1966. http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_pl505.html Concerning the PCL85 and PCL805. There might be slight differences between the valves but I think the main reason for the recode was to bring the valve into the Pro-Electron valve coding system. DFWB.

26th May 2007, 11:45 am	#13
yagosaga Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Braunschweig, Germany Posts: 208	Re: Pl509 / Pl519 Two PL505s were in the first generation Telefunken PALcolor 708, made in 1966 and in spring of 1967. The later PALcolors were fitted with the PL509. In the Philips K8D, there were two PL519s with two PY500As. Cheers, Eckhard

26th May 2007, 9:30 pm	#14
Hybrid tellies Nonode Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: 1966-1976 Coverack in Cornwall and Helston Cornwall. 1976-present Bristol/Bath area. Posts: 2,965	Re: Pl509 / Pl519 The PCL805 was introduced to contend with the higher flyback voltages found in the frame stage of the Philips 210/300 mono set. Its strange that despite Philips and Mullard being in the same group, Philips were the only ones to design a set the overstretched the reasonably trusty PCL85. I would imagine that caused a few red faces! Another valve that was bought in to deal with the higher EHT voltages found in later mono sets was the DY802, to replace the DY87. Going back to the PL509/519 topic, as has been said the PL519 was introduced to contend with the higher power required by 110 degree tubes as used by some continental sets, but they were also used as a more robust replacement for the PL509 in most UK sets. At Radio Rentals they insisted that only Mullard PL519's were to be used in their Korting 8750 hybrid telly which used the 90 degree A56-120X crt. __________________ Simon BVWS member

26th May 2007, 10:12 pm	#15
Tazman1966 Nonode Join Date: May 2006 Location: St Albans, Herts, UK. Posts: 2,193	Re: Pl509 / Pl519 Steve. Watford Valves of Bricket Wood near Watford have a large stock of NOS "Tungsram" branded PL509 valves and NOS "Siemens" branded PL519 valves as well. I did enquire as to whether I could drop in with my cash to pick up a couple of them and avoid the postage as I drive through Bricket Wood every day to get to work but they said that it would not be possible - no callers. They tend to cater mainly for the audio fraternity. All the best, __________________ All the very best, Tas

26th May 2007, 10:58 pm	#16
Steve_P Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bolton, Greater Manchester, UK. Posts: 6,644	Re: Pl509 / Pl519 I think I'll stick to Mullard Ones. Although I have yet to see how a Line Output Pentode can be successfully used in this way and it to sound Good! They operate as a switch in a way - the slope is put in by the inductance of the Line Transformer. Look here: http://www.oldtellys.co.uk/otindex.html and click on the Line Timebase and EHT section. So why do they fetch these sort of prices? http://www.watfordvalves.com/product_detail.asp?id=1632 Cheers, Steve P __________________ If we've always had it, why is the Car Boot open? You're not sneaking another Old TV in are you...?

30th May 2007, 9:57 pm	#19
Welsh Anorak Dekatron Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: North Wales, UK. Posts: 6,920	Re: Pl509 / Pl519 Hi I remember seeing a Bush CTV25 with a PL505 in it in the mid-seventies when I was annoying my local TV shop (as usual). I had to look twice as I'd never heard of them, but I've looked in the CTV25 manual (MkI) and there it is! Why it then became the 509 and not the 506 is anyone's guess..... And yes - there was a valve audio amp design in the eighties that used 'the inexpensive PL509' - it could even have been via Maplin when they did that sort of thing. Glyn