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Vintage Computers Any vintage computer systems, calculators, video games etc., but with an emphasis on 1980s and earlier equipment.

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Old 7th Sep 2008, 9:24 am   #1
ppppenguin
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Default Colossus valve appeal on R4 today

Tony Sale will be on Radio 4 in a few minutes, appealing for valves to keep the rebuilt Colossus working into the future.

At present a Wren is talking about her work at Bletchley Park.
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Old 7th Sep 2008, 9:46 am   #2
Darren-UK
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Default Re: Colossus valve appeal on R4 today

I've just turned it on at 09:42 and there's political stuff on, now it's gone onto global warming stuff.............
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Old 7th Sep 2008, 4:35 pm   #3
dave walsh
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Default Re: Colossus valve appeal on R4 today

It's definetely there on the program [Broadcasting House] Darren as ppp said , I'm listening to the playback now, 23 min in to 29. Given today's news story about govt info loss [again] it is instructive to hear an ex Wren say we knew how to safeguard information then [even from our spouses] not leave it in cafes or on trains! Tony Sale does ask for valves after saying that there are 2.5k in the machine, he loses about five a year and he has a ten year supply of back ups [presumably only 50 valves].
He describes it as a giant Laptop with a 5.5kw PSU. My first thought was that people on here and in the BVWS etc could be an obvious source of help but he didn't appear to specify any type [aren't they all EF50's]. When people are rifling Grandads attic, as he suggests, I wonder how many valves [or other stuff] Bletchley will be swamped with that they don't want! It might be worth investigating this from all angles. Dave W
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Old 7th Sep 2008, 8:18 pm   #4
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Default Re: Colossus valve appeal on R4 today

I would guess octal double triodes may be helpful 6SN7?
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Old 7th Sep 2008, 8:42 pm   #5
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Default Re: Colossus valve appeal on R4 today

ISTR the main need was for EF37 and some kind of thyratron. This reference may cause some amusement.

http://www.powerhousemuseum.com/coll...se/?irn=361988

This page suggests my memory was about right. GY1C thyratrons, EF36/37/37A. Also 6V6, 6J5, 807.
http://reviews.ebay.co.uk/Wanted-EF3...00000005835327

This page is more authoritative. Looks like GY1C is a typo for GT1C.
http://www.r-type.org/static/valvecpu.htm
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Old 7th Sep 2008, 9:18 pm   #6
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Default Re: Colossus valve appeal on R4 today

Yes, GT1C is certainly a valve it uses.

I think the project had loads of these - Billington sorted huge boxes of valves out for Colossus.

Still, I will have a rummage and see if I can spare any for them.

The comment on Powerhouse regarding the harvesting of old exchange equipment is indeed correct - tons of it was rescued by local BT engineers, and sent to Bletchley.
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Old 7th Sep 2008, 9:35 pm   #7
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Default Re: Colossus valve appeal on R4 today

A few years ago you would nip round to your local government surplus shop and they would have loads of them.
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Old 8th Sep 2008, 7:55 pm   #8
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Default Re: Colossus valve appeal on R4 today

I have 3 Mullard EF37A's and 3 Solus 6V6GT's, all NOS. I see that the G envelope is prefered but I am sure they will be glad of these. The EF37A's are also in a straight sided glass tube envelope.

They are in excellent cosmetic condition, the EF37A's in particular look brand new.

I will test them first of course and am sure the EF37A's will be A1, but it is wait and see with the 6V6s as they are SOLUS.

The only question I have is where do I send them? Bletchley Park?
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Old 8th Sep 2008, 8:10 pm   #9
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Default Re: Colossus valve appeal on R4 today

Yep, address them to the Mansion, FAO Tony Sale, or The Colussus Rebuild Project

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Old 8th Sep 2008, 8:16 pm   #10
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Default Re: Colossus valve appeal on R4 today

Thanks Sean.
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Old 9th Sep 2008, 1:32 pm   #11
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Default Re: Colossus valve appeal on R4 today

More on Bletchley Park/Computer Museum just now. Radio 4 World at One. s. Dave
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Old 9th Sep 2008, 1:50 pm   #12
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Default Re: Colossus valve appeal on R4 today

I can't help suspecting that this is a PR exercise by the Colossus team rather than a genuine appeal for valves. There are vast numbers of EF37s around - they were used in all sorts of lab equipment in the 40s and 50s, and the EF37A was also a standard audio valve in broadcast and military equipment. They last well so few replacements should be needed, given that the machine will only be powered up occasionally.

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Old 9th Sep 2008, 3:07 pm   #13
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Default Re: Colossus valve appeal on R4 today

If they're really, really that desperate, I'm sure that it's possible to start making brand new valves anyway -- and I'm sure that with modern manufacturing techniques, they could be made much more reliable than in the 1940s.
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Old 9th Sep 2008, 6:24 pm   #14
dave walsh
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Default Re: Colossus valve appeal on R4 today

You might be right Paul but I should have made it clear that this was definetely PR about funding for the whole site and the Computer Museum.
Not, strictly speaking, valves. The government even responded on air......No!
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Old 9th Sep 2008, 7:51 pm   #15
Sean Williams
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Default Re: Colossus valve appeal on R4 today

Colossus actually runs a lot more than for just a few minutes.....

Every weekend at least, and during the summer it always used to be powered up.

As usual, there is always a shortage of funding, so appeals like these make good sense to cash strapped charities.

Cheers
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Old 9th Sep 2008, 8:13 pm   #16
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Default Re: Colossus valve appeal on R4 today

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulsherwin View Post
There are vast numbers of EF37s around -

I am sure you are right Paul that there are buckets of EF37s around but as others have said its about funding and not valve availability.

It makes sense for a cash strapped charity to ask for donations of valves (as well as other donations) rather than buy them on the open market. The EF37 is a good candidate because there can't be much be demand for them elsewhere; you won't find any in vintage radios for example (to my knowledge).

BTW the $100,000 dollar donation by IBM and PGP is great news.
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Old 10th Sep 2008, 10:47 pm   #17
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Default Re: Colossus valve appeal on R4 today

Quote:
Originally Posted by ppppenguin View Post
ISTR the main need was for EF37 and some kind of thyratron. This reference may cause some amusement.

http://www.powerhousemuseum.com/coll...se/?irn=361988


Mostly a perfectly reasonable technical article wrapped up by someone who didn't know solid from vacuum states!

Chris
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Old 11th Sep 2008, 8:45 am   #18
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Default Re: Colossus valve appeal on R4 today

Following from Sean's post No.15,

I can see that running Colossus can present a problem with valves. I understand from contacts with the GPO and Ferranti in the distant past, that in the early valve based computers most of the valve failures occurred at switch-on so the policy to reduce the need for replacements was to leave them running continuously. I can't do the sums on failure rates and the number of valves used but I guess that the need to replace a valve would be more frequent than we are familiar with in vintage radios.

This policy is O.K when they have high usage and lots of cash for the electric bill. There was also the possibility of selling computer time when it was not needed to recover some of the cost.

Colossus has a different use so they may have a valve replacement need that is a problem. I doubt whether they can run it continuously, so donations of valves could be very helpful indeed.
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Old 11th Sep 2008, 5:37 pm   #19
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Default Re: Colossus valve appeal on R4 today

As all you vintage radio buffs out there will know, valve failure rates are quite low. But when you are dealing with a piece of equipment that contains 2500 valves a small percentage failure rate equates to quite a few valves.
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Old 15th Sep 2008, 5:12 pm   #20
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Default Re: Colossus valve appeal on R4 today

Quote:
Originally Posted by ukcol View Post
I have 3 Mullard EF37A's and 3 Solus 6V6GT's....................

I tested these at the weekend and sadly only 2 valves passed. All 3 Solus 6V6s had high grid current and one of the EF37As had a heater-cathode short.

'Best laid plans and all that. Anyway the 2 good EF37As have gone off to Bletchley today.
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