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Old 20th Apr 2021, 2:40 pm   #21
Techman
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Default Re: Grundig One Off Radiogram Help

I've just made another observation in that there's two different pictures shown by the OP of the radio front panel, one with the bottom of the controls obscured and one with the panel lifted showing the underside of the controls, so the OP is perhaps confusing us by trying to remove the chassis and showing two different pictures.

What I would say to the OP if they're going to try to get the unit working is to NOT try to operate either of the two controls on the record deck if they feel at all stiff. These controls WILL snap off and are completely unobtainable, so it's best to remove and fully service the deck before trying to operate it. Also the speed control should be in neutral when not in use, otherwise it puts a flat on the unobtainable idler wheel, but if the speed control doesn't move freely, then leave it until you've freed off the mechanism.

The radio chassis will require assessing before power up and there will probably be a couple or three critical capacitors that may need replacing.

Edit: Just seen your post Lawrence, re the controls... posts crossed!

Last edited by Techman; 20th Apr 2021 at 2:44 pm. Reason: Posts crossed.
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Old 20th Apr 2021, 4:00 pm   #22
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Default Re: Grundig One Off Radiogram Help

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fairthorpe View Post
There is a one off back panel with nothing on it ... this is the tuning eye but no logo ... also this is the quick shot with the back off ... I'll have more time tomorrow to see what's what.
That escutcheon around the eye reminds me of Radio Rentals. But I think the unit is a Grundig.
The chassis is not fitted properly into the cabinet around the push buttons and tone controls, and it does not sit on the rails inside the cabinet.
So to me it looks like a "marriage" as they say.

Mike

Last edited by crackle; 20th Apr 2021 at 4:06 pm.
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Old 20th Apr 2021, 4:16 pm   #23
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Default Re: Grundig One Off Radiogram Help

So I opened her up, labelled everything then disconnected enough to pull the chassis .... I'm convinced its a basic Telefunken now.

BSR is original as the base is machined perfectly for it and an integral part of the cabinet.

Speakers are large ellipticals sealed into a separate box that fires out of slots in the floor of the cabinet with felt seals ... but an unconnected electrostatic tweeter ..

The attached are the first photos with any labelling I could find ... not Googled them yet ... will attach some more on a second post ..
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Old 20th Apr 2021, 4:40 pm   #24
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Default Re: Grundig One Off Radiogram Help

https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/contin...vineta_i3.html

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Old 20th Apr 2021, 6:12 pm   #25
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Default Re: Grundig One Off Radiogram Help

Agree completely with Lawrence.I've compared the chassis in question viwed from behind with a Imperial J350 and they are exactly the same.
The J350 in original has two Isophon oval 180x260mm bass loudspeakers and one electrostatic LSH75 tweeter.

Now,how they had the nerve to name this radio Stereo is beyond my imagination...
Only six valves and a completely standard EABC80/EL84 output stage...
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Old 20th Apr 2021, 6:12 pm   #26
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Default Re: Grundig One Off Radiogram Help

The legs are very short, so the sound would have gone straight down to the floor - all bass and not much else...it would have sounded awful and not something a professional manufacturer would have done. The electrostatic tweeter is a give away with it not being connected, as this would have come from the original table radio, so sounds like it was never actually finished off. However, it has been constructed very nicely with the cabinet either already being made for something else, or constructed for that custom gram.

I agree that the deck board 'looks' original - I've got one for a BSR UA8 somewhere in the loft, so could compare. If you look at your last picture in the previous post, you can clearly see the mark on the inside of the back board where a slide in panel would have covered the underside of the deck and also had the slots for the record storage dividers. That cover needs to be put back in, as it's a safety part to prevent anyone from touching possible live mains connections beneath the deck when accessing the record compartment.

Mentioning the neutral position on the record deck speed control suddenly reminded me that I'd got an old radiogram with a UA8 deck out in the garage that I wheel out sometimes when I'm working outside to play records on or listen to the radio. It was sometime a few weeks ago in that warm(er) spell we had, just before this last cold spell that I had it outside the garage playing records and as I finished typing that last post, it suddenly occurred to me that I couldn't remember putting the deck speed control back to neutral, so I went out to the garage to check it and sure enough it was still set to a speed and not the little 'dot' position - I need to remember to take my own advice sometimes!
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Old 20th Apr 2021, 6:25 pm   #27
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Default Re: Grundig One Off Radiogram Help

Lawrence - thanks got it on the second attempt !

I'm now convinced its a Imperial Stereo Vineta I350W (350, J350W)

Some notes to clarify some observations.

1) The whole thing is probably a well executed triggers broom but the chassis does fit the hole correctly if it had been fastened down ... the photo of it fitting correctly was the Ebay one ... the loose was after the Transit trip.

2) The pair of elliptical Imperial speakers point down through the floor in a very well executed triangular box with green felt seals.

3) The turntable section is the right size with. a cupboard behind it accessed from the side. The hole for the BSR is very well done, even has grooved holes for the springs and is all varnished ... if it was a later addition someone got a very small router in there. It does need the underside panel to avoid electrocution.

4) The BSR itself has been mauled hence the cables dangling down. The stereo magnetic cartridge had a new four core wire but looks to have been taped in around the arm head !! The dreaded dry grease has got to most of it. The motor mounts are shot.


Thank you for the circuit diagram - I'll pull it down and print it out.

I'll then follow the inspection sticky notes, do a first pass inspection and possibly build a lamp limiter next ... thanks for everyones help so far very much appreciated.

Chris
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Old 20th Apr 2021, 6:53 pm   #28
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Default Re: Grundig One Off Radiogram Help

Just to note - I think you realise that you won't be able to use that magnetic cartridge with this unit, but one of the very cheap, but good Chinese ceramic types should be perfect for it.
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Old 20th Apr 2021, 10:09 pm   #29
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Default Re: Grundig One Off Radiogram Help

I've found pictures of a similar one on-line and 'borrowed' them. The cabinet is made by "DF", Design Furniture Limited. This one looks like it's had its legs cut off, so no sound from underneath on this occasion - build your own radiogram, see below:-
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Old 20th Aug 2021, 9:10 am   #30
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Default Re: Grundig One Off Radiogram Help

So my Imperial Vineta is now back up and running with new capacitors, mains lead and some other remedial work.

I have decided to use a Garrard SP25 Mk2 turntable as I have one and it looks less like a lathe than the BSR.

I've read up on cartridges on the forum - could I use a stereo ceramic cartridge in this thing and would I wire it serially or parallel ?

If a cartridge is risky I'll go Ipod instead

Thanks in advance

Chris
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Old 20th Aug 2021, 9:29 am   #31
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Default Re: Grundig One Off Radiogram Help

Quote:
Originally Posted by roffe View Post
...how they had the nerve to name this radio Stereo is beyond my imagination.
The Greek root is "stereos", meaning "solid", and some companies, notably RCA, used the word to describe some innovation other than two channels before this became the common usage.
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Old 20th Aug 2021, 9:32 am   #32
Edward Huggins
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Default Re: Grundig One Off Radiogram Help

By all means use a Stereo cartridge. Just make sure the LH and RH channels are neatly bridged to give true, room filling, Mono.
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Old 20th Aug 2021, 9:41 am   #33
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Default Re: Grundig One Off Radiogram Help

I don't think bringing the chassis forward would conceal the bottoms of the tone knobs. It looks more like the chassis is too high (or the aperture too low) which makes me look at the multiple blocks the chassis is sitting on. They don't look very professional/production.

A look at how the autochanger motor is wired and how mains voltage selection is done might give a clue as to whether it's a radiogram chassis or a re-purposed radio one.

I think the speaker placement rules out it being a product of any of the main manufacturers. A re-purposed non-radio sort of cabinet looks the best bet to me.

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Old 20th Aug 2021, 10:58 am   #34
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Default Re: Grundig One Off Radiogram Help

Quote:
Originally Posted by Radio Wrangler View Post
I don't think bringing the chassis forward would conceal the bottoms of the tone knobs.
I think the left hand one looks to be and the right hand one would be if the chassis wasn't at an angle (4th photo Post#1)

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Old 20th Aug 2021, 11:40 am   #35
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Default Re: Grundig One Off Radiogram Help

Sorry I probably need to be a little more specific to avoid going off piste.

I read this sticky - https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...ad.php?t=29597

In the sticky it talks about wiring a stereo ceramic cartridge for mono use but has two options parallel or series .... anyone want to point me to which I try first ? Plan B is I try both and see which works best ! Plan C is to go Ipod with the transformer adapter on the web...

PS - its a repurposed radio that when fully in place fits the hole correctly, the cabinet is very nicely built. The radio has a ceramic phono input on the back .....

Last edited by Fairthorpe; 20th Aug 2021 at 11:49 am.
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Old 20th Aug 2021, 12:40 pm   #36
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Default Re: Grundig One Off Radiogram Help

That SERIES or PARALLEL option is uneccessarily confusing.
Do as I have already suggested as this is a time-proven way to use a Stereo cartridge for Mono.
And no need for an out-of-character iPod with this.....
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Old 20th Aug 2021, 3:11 pm   #37
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Default Re: Grundig One Off Radiogram Help

Edward - thanks will give it a go ..
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Old 27th Aug 2021, 11:50 am   #38
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Default Re: Grundig One Off Radiogram Help

I have purchased a really nice Garrard SP25 Mk!! for the princely sum of £25 to go in the radiogram. It came complete with a Pickering V15 AC2 that will go in the collection of moving magnet cartridges and be replaced with a ceramic jobbie. The case is going to house the BSR and go in the loft ... my Frank Sinatra 78's will probably be happier with the Garrard ....
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Old 27th Aug 2021, 2:41 pm   #39
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Default Re: Grundig One Off Radiogram Help

Those earlier SP25 decks are very nice and in my opinion better than the later marks, even though I've still got a later one that I bought brand new back in the day. My cousin had that particular earlier mark deck in a record player with one of the gold Sonotone ceramic cartridges and I was always impressed with it. It seems a shame not to keep it and use it in its rather nice original plinth, but agree that it will be a good replacement to go in the radiogram.
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