Is Practical Vintage Radio Too Dangerous For The 21st Century?

[JoshWard]

Originally Posted by Silicon

I am the only one in my street that works on their car.
I don't want some teenager working on my brakes.

There is no need for age discrimination.

[Silicon]

You're right Josh. I apologise.

Most teenagers are not as daft as I once was.

[JoshWard]

We all have to learn how to do things sometime

Josh
(who has redone the entire braking system on a few cars now, no problems yet!)

[G6Tanuki]

I think there are two underlying issues here.

First: much "modern" consumer electronics [anything built after about 1980] is not really designed to be repairable - think of wall-wart power-supplies with the two plastic clamshell-halves glued/laser-welded together, or CD/DVD/PVRs and TVs with loads of custom surface-mount chips, or iPhones with non-replaceable batteries.

This isn't direct malice against repairers by the equipment-manufacturers, it's just sound production- and value-engineering which is why you can now buy a perfectly functional colour-TV for 25 quid rather than having to stump up six months wages which was the case when they first appeared.

Second: people have been conditioned to believe that "electricty/gas/cars/construction-work are scary and must only be worked-on by skilled people" - a good example being the "Gas Safe" regulations and "Part P" wiring regulations and the proliferation of Building Control rules. It's crazy that I can design and certify multi-Kilowatt transmitter installations (with 3-phase AC supplies) but am not allowed to replace a consumer-unit in my house.

A third consideration can be the risk-time/cost of doing work yourself - with no guarantee you'll be able to achieve a successful fix. Most people these days are cash-rich, time-poor - if their five-year-old TV or radio doesn't work they'd rather buy the latest model (which probably works better/has more features/is cheaper than the one it replaces) and enjoy the time watching it rather than spend an afternoon trying to fix it without really knowing what they're doing.

[As an example, I've got an angle-grinder and a Fire-Axe and access to a 4-post lift but I still pay someone £100 to fit the replacement exhausts on my car rather than waste an afternoon getting mud/rust in my face]

It's funny how danger is interpreted, I am not allowed to work on most of my house electrics that I put in some years ago (I did the lot). Yet I may fill the house with old radios.

When I was at school in the '70's we had a physics lesson where we wired up a bulb to a battery, to my supprise the teacher asked 'how many of you have done this before' even more supprising about 80% said 'no'. Not doing anything practical and/or interesting isn't a new thing, it's just a bit harder these days. One of those old memories that has stuck.

Question... The english 'and' is similar to the logical and whereas 'or' seems to be logical exclusive or, is there an english word for logical inclusive or?

I have got lost in the replies, the answer to " Is Practical Vintage Radio Too Dangerous For The 21st Century?" is NO.

[Skywave]

Originally Posted by Variometer

I can't help feeling that the hobby of vintage radio will be dying out in the next few years because of this [perceived danger of mains voltages] attitude. {Extract from original post}

You could be quite correct. The disappearance of the hobby is also likely to be brought about by the eventual demise and disappearance of A.M. broadcasting on M.W. and L.W., looking at current trends.

Al.

[Tubeglow]

This is a very interesting discussion,

When I was at school there were only a few interested in electronics. Practical wireless was my comic, and I had very little access to people to guide me.

I worked on live B&W TV's for fun. My friend wanted to work for the BBC and was always making a good TV out of a couple of bad ones. He had a home made valve receiver and a wire aerial from his house to the bottom of the garden SW was fun!

I remember making the PW scope but could never get the fly back suppression working properly. And I made supplies with a couple of hundred volts for fun.

Times were very different then, you could go to town and buy parts off the shelf. Philips electronics kits were fun. My parents had no idea what I was doing. When asked by other members of the family "He likes playing with electrical things".

Now where are the magazines? Where is the interest? I have a feeling it was on the cards when the ZX81 came in, interestingly I made a programmable controller out of one for a fish tank.

I also managed to repair a Rigonda stereo with a guitar string. The nice television repair people gave me a copy of the circuit diagram.

I think as pointed out it's easier the make a LW/SW/MW radio than FM or digital.

Another interesting point is Maplin, whats the difference between these cables? That one is yellow! LOL
Even the staff are computer geeks but that's about as much as you are going to get.
Have you got a 1N4001 diode? is that a transistor?

Tubeglow.

One other,

I would always wrap any cable which if it detached due to solder fail could touch down to a chassis (mains cable) or cause a transformer to burn out B+ connection etc.

Another example is a safety soldered Earth.

Tubeglow.

[robin coleman]

It seems there is a lack of interest and common sence in the younger society and there games take over from spending any time on tinkering with things and learning how they work and how to repair them when they do not work.
Regards
Robin

[kellys_eye]

Originally Posted by G6Tanuki

It's crazy that I can design and certify multi-Kilowatt transmitter installations (with 3-phase AC supplies) but am not allowed to replace a consumer-unit in my house.

Au contaire - you CAN replace your consumer unit. As with many of the regulations we are constantly 'limited' by you need to read the small print to ascertain what it is you can and can't do.

The rules pertaining to electrical installation require that the person doing the work be 'competent'...... that's all, competent. No specific qualifications. You could, most likely, prove your competence in a court of law if you had to but this is rarely brought into question (except in those rare and sad occasions where INcompetence has led to injury and/or death).

I suspect the same applies to many of the no-go areas people normally associate with needing a 'professional' to attend.

Demarkation used to be the biggest problem in industry but we're now seeing efforts to put those same practises into everyday life.

[Karen O]

This is perhaps getting a little off topic but all the over-regulation of our lives seems linked to the current fad of treating everything as a business. Everything has to be codified, standardised and homogenised because that is what business people do to protect the quality of their products.

[threeseven]

Very true, everybody is a customer, even to the NHS(!), and everything is a product, even a bank loan!

[Radio_Dave]

Of course they're dangerous, they were always dangerous! I hate this idea that "back in the day" everybody knew about the dangers of electricity and never got hurt, they did!

That's what health and safety is all about, removing risks and dangers by continued improvement. It's because of, amongst other things, live chassis radios that we now have double insulation and polarized plugs.

To answer the question, no they're not too dangerous for the 21st century but there are safer ways to listen to a radio.

We, on this forum, know the dangers and choose to take the risk, that's our risk assessment done. The danger to the future of our hobby is going to come when an unsuspecting/uninitiated person buys a vintage radio and gets hurt.

David

[mark pirate]

In most cases, radios and especially TV's have a warning on the back about the dangerous voltages within.
Many have warnings like ' do not operate with back removed', many sets like my Pye TV's had an interlock fitted to the back panel to prevent the set being powered up with the back removed.

I notice for example, that sets offered on auction sites usually have the plug and/or mains lead removed, and a warning about the set should be checked by an engineer/competent person before connecting to the mains.
Presumably to stop the seller getting sued!

Mark

[Peter.N.]

People could still poke a screwdriver through the slots in the back and come in contact with the chassis - but they didn't, common sense still existed in those days.

Peter

[Hybrid tellies]

In the wrong hands yes working on CRT TV's and valved radios it can be dangerous. But with education and guidance, as we offer to new members of this forum, this danger can be at least explained.
I think there will always be a fascination with older equipment especially if it is restored to original condition and can be shown to work as well as a more modern offering for example being able to watch Freeview cable or satellite TV through a vintage tv.
What fascinates people of all ages seems to be the look and character of an older radio and TV compared to the more bland modern stuff.

[mole42uk]

Originally Posted by Tubeglow

Where is the interest? I have a feeling it was on the cards when the ZX81 came in

This reminds me of a conversation I had back in the late '70s with the guy who ran an electronics component shop in Nottingham.

He was closing down, despite being the only local source for hobbyists of a wide range of electronic components. When I asked why, he just replied that kids these days are more interested in playing with their ZX80s than building anything.

Richard

[mole42uk]

Originally Posted by Karen O

Everything has to be codified, standardised and homogenised because that is what business people do to protect the quality of their products.

Actually, it's to stop them being sued if something goes wrong. The ambulance chasers are everywhere......

Richard

[wireful3]

I had an interesting experience related to Kellys eye's remarks. At a Health and Safety course we were discussing working on very high voltage equipment. The lecturer said that even though because of my job I had no need work on it, it would be permissible. I had been trained by the RAF as a Radar Mechanic so as far as he could see, that was enough. My employers though may not wish me to do so. He said that it was quite common for people to cite regulations without actually reading all of the detail, it makes life easier for them.

Back to the main theme the general attitude years ago seems a bit odd to me. Festoons of equipment running with bayonet adapters from light fittings were common. There are even similar examples today. Connecting two and even more things into a single plug top does happen.

There seem to have been three types of people in the distant past. People who knew what they were doing and were confident things would be safe. Then there were people who were terrified of electricity and would not go near anything electrical. An extreme case of this was an old lady, very reluctant to go into a room where the light fitting had no bulb in it. There were also people who didn't have a clue but would have a go. Fishing bread out of a toaster with a kitchen knife for instance.

Maybe the past was just as dangerous as now but the news media did not make a national issue of each event. Today things that could possibly cause injury are now reported with horror even though there was no accident. In some cases the circumstances for harm are very convoluted and unlikely. It does however give a good headline.

[Biggles]

Looking back to my teenage years I suppose I was very lucky not to have overprotective parents. They never once stopped me playing around with electrical things, and didn't turn a hair when I said I wanted a motorbike. I am still riding them 35 years later. To be able to discover things for yourself without anybody saying "too dangerous" is probably a rare thing nowadays. I used to have an AC/DC set next to my bed with no case on it. Not a good idea, there I've even said it myself. To be allowed to disappear for the day on a bike ride or whatever when you're thirteen is probably a nono also. Are kids creative today? How many have built and flown a kite or model plane? Not many I suspect. I am just glad to have experienced a time in my life when you seemed to have a bit of freedom.
Alan