Ferguson 3V00 take-up reel not running - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

Steve_P · 17th Apr 2007, 10:39 pm

I've got a 3V00 here with the Take Up not going on playback. I've changed the Spindle with a working one - Still Faulty. I've cleaned everything. Still faulty. Underneath the deck there's a Whitey Yellow thing that carries the torque from the large belt underneath through to the top, where it's about 0.5mm short when play is pressed.

The belts have been changed and apart from the take up, it's fine. I have changed the Whitey Yellow thing underneath and it's spring from the working deck.

Still the same!!

Am I finally going mad?

Cheers,

Steve P

Nickthedentist · 17th Apr 2007, 11:35 pm

Steve,

Are you using pattern (i.e. non-JVC) idlers?

This kind of thing has been known to be caused by fractionally undersized tyres on the odd batch of these

Nick.

Steve_P · 18th Apr 2007, 12:06 am

Pass, as all I have done is swap stuff from a Working Deck to a Non-Working one to find the faulty part. The parts that have been changed so-far have all come from a working deck!

If they worked in Deck 1, surely the same parts would work in Deck 2?

Cheers,

Steve P

Mike Phelan · 18th Apr 2007, 7:52 am

Hi Steve
Just to make sure what you are saying; the tape is feeding through the pinch roller and capstan OK, but the RH spool is not turning to take up the slack?
FF + Rewind OK?
If so, is the clutch OK?
Not sure of the whitey-yellow thing - any chance of a pic/pics?

Steve_P · 18th Apr 2007, 8:16 pm

Well, I'd send pics if I had a working camera. But I haven't right now. So...

Yes. it is the take up that's not working. I've changed the spool carrier with one off a working deck. And this, in playback, gets its torque from a clutch underneath, previousy referred to as a 'Yellow Thing'.

This too has been changed. I've scanned the one I took out - it's attached. It has a spring on it, and a mechanism for adjusting the take up torque. Is it OK to adjust this?

This gets its torque from the motor that drives the belt.

Cheers,

Steve P

Steve_P · 18th Apr 2007, 9:24 pm

These are photos attached here. My camera now works. Just my photography skills aren't all that good. These were taken with the machine in Play Mode and the mains off.

Cheers,

Steve P

Nickthedentist · 18th Apr 2007, 9:45 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve_P

Underneath the deck there's a Whitey Yellow thing that carries the torque from the large belt underneath through to the top, where it's about 0.5mm short when play is pressed.

Steve,

Could you elaborate, please?

Do you mean that the silver-coloured part of the clutch assembly doesn't quite make contact with the take-up reel's tyre?

Nick.

Steve_P · 18th Apr 2007, 9:59 pm

Yes, but 0.5mm is a generous estimate here. It's odd is this...

Cheers,

Steve P

Welsh Anorak · 18th Apr 2007, 10:28 pm

Hi Steve
I still think there were two types of clutch for the 3V00 with different diameters. Anyone else remember this?
Otherwise I wonder if the actuator lever is sticking just short of its final position - the rings did used to get a bit stiff and the grease could become glue-like. Of couse that's located between the upper and lower decks...oh what fun.
Glyn

AndiiT · 18th Apr 2007, 10:40 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welsh Anorak

Hi Steve
I still think there were two types of clutch for the 3V00 with different diameters. Anyone else remember this?
Glyn

I seem to recall there being two different sized clutches for the 3V00, although I didn't work on too many of these machines.

Also wasn't there was a stock fault where a roller attached to a lever (best description I can come up with at this time of night) didn't seat correctly in a notch on the mechanism timing gear which, I think, could cause the symptoms that Steve is getting with his 3V00.

Andrew

Michael Maurice · 18th Apr 2007, 11:09 pm

Did you change the belts? If so where did you get them from?

ISTR that if the belt is too small, it can cause this problem.

ben · 18th Apr 2007, 11:22 pm

have you given the outer rubber rim of the t.u. spool a going over with emery paper? could be hard and shiny=no torque

Mike Phelan · 19th Apr 2007, 7:50 am

OK - a few things from what I remember in the distant past ....
The TU clutch top (alloy top-hat shaped bit) should be pressing firmly against the reel tyre whilst in record and PB.
I do not remember any change in the clutch, from the original 3292 to the last 3V16s.
The tension spring in the clutch is not critical and normally does not need touching.
A recurring problem on older machines is that the various rivetted posts on the deck plate started to come loose, because of the high spring tension on various bits attached to the main gear. Thorn supplied a rivetting tool and we could get new posts as well.

HTH

PS: Steve - why not let us have a look at NVCF? We'll not need mains to check this part.

Steve_P · 19th Apr 2007, 9:17 pm

Well, I've fixed it, but not 100% sure how!

Took the Clutch out, cleaned everything again. Took the spindle off - Cleaned Spindle and underneath thourougly. Nothing came off, but I put them all back on with a different drive belt. Just as an 'I can't think of anything else' measure.

Oddly enough, it worked. Had 2 drive belts and it didn't. This one and it did.

Michael - They came from Grandata. Everyboby - thanks for your ideas and for listening to a halfway insane one handed TV Engineer.

Now lets see what else happens...

Cheers,

Steve P

17th Apr 2007, 10:39 pm	#1
Steve_P Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bolton, Greater Manchester, UK. Posts: 6,644	Ferguson 3V00 take-up reel not running I've got a 3V00 here with the Take Up not going on playback. I've changed the Spindle with a working one - Still Faulty. I've cleaned everything. Still faulty. Underneath the deck there's a Whitey Yellow thing that carries the torque from the large belt underneath through to the top, where it's about 0.5mm short when play is pressed. The belts have been changed and apart from the take up, it's fine. I have changed the Whitey Yellow thing underneath and it's spring from the working deck. Still the same!! Am I finally going mad? Cheers, Steve P __________________ If we've always had it, why is the Car Boot open? You're not sneaking another Old TV in are you...?

17th Apr 2007, 11:35 pm	#2
Nickthedentist Dekatron Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Oxford, UK. Posts: 17,846	Re: 3V00 Problem. Steve, Are you using pattern (i.e. non-JVC) idlers? This kind of thing has been known to be caused by fractionally undersized tyres on the odd batch of these Nick.

18th Apr 2007, 12:06 am	#3
Steve_P Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bolton, Greater Manchester, UK. Posts: 6,644	Re: 3V00 Problem. Pass, as all I have done is swap stuff from a Working Deck to a Non-Working one to find the faulty part. The parts that have been changed so-far have all come from a working deck! If they worked in Deck 1, surely the same parts would work in Deck 2? Cheers, Steve P __________________ If we've always had it, why is the Car Boot open? You're not sneaking another Old TV in are you...?

18th Apr 2007, 7:52 am	#4
Mike Phelan Dekatron Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Near Leeds, West Yorkshire, UK Posts: 4,609	Re: 3V00 Problem. Hi Steve Just to make sure what you are saying; the tape is feeding through the pinch roller and capstan OK, but the RH spool is not turning to take up the slack? FF + Rewind OK? If so, is the clutch OK? Not sure of the whitey-yellow thing - any chance of a pic/pics? __________________ Mike.

18th Apr 2007, 8:16 pm	#5
Steve_P Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bolton, Greater Manchester, UK. Posts: 6,644	Re: 3V00 Problem. Well, I'd send pics if I had a working camera. But I haven't right now. So... Yes. it is the take up that's not working. I've changed the spool carrier with one off a working deck. And this, in playback, gets its torque from a clutch underneath, previousy referred to as a 'Yellow Thing'. This too has been changed. I've scanned the one I took out - it's attached. It has a spring on it, and a mechanism for adjusting the take up torque. Is it OK to adjust this? This gets its torque from the motor that drives the belt. Cheers, Steve P Attached Thumbnails __________________ If we've always had it, why is the Car Boot open? You're not sneaking another Old TV in are you...? Last edited by Mike Phelan; 11th Jun 2007 at 5:16 pm. Reason: EBay reference

18th Apr 2007, 9:24 pm	#6
Steve_P Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bolton, Greater Manchester, UK. Posts: 6,644	Re: 3V00 Problem. These are photos attached here. My camera now works. Just my photography skills aren't all that good. These were taken with the machine in Play Mode and the mains off. Cheers, Steve P Attached Thumbnails __________________ If we've always had it, why is the Car Boot open? You're not sneaking another Old TV in are you...?

18th Apr 2007, 9:59 pm	#8
Steve_P Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bolton, Greater Manchester, UK. Posts: 6,644	Re: 3V00 Problem. Yes, but 0.5mm is a generous estimate here. It's odd is this... Cheers, Steve P __________________ If we've always had it, why is the Car Boot open? You're not sneaking another Old TV in are you...?

18th Apr 2007, 10:28 pm	#9
Welsh Anorak Dekatron Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: North Wales, UK. Posts: 6,921	Re: 3V00 Problem. Hi Steve I still think there were two types of clutch for the 3V00 with different diameters. Anyone else remember this? Otherwise I wonder if the actuator lever is sticking just short of its final position - the rings did used to get a bit stiff and the grease could become glue-like. Of couse that's located between the upper and lower decks...oh what fun. Glyn

18th Apr 2007, 11:09 pm	#11
Michael Maurice Moderator Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Wembley, Middlesex Posts: 7,224	Re: 3V00 Problem. Did you change the belts? If so where did you get them from? ISTR that if the belt is too small, it can cause this problem.

18th Apr 2007, 11:22 pm	#12
ben Dekatron Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Madrid, Spain / Wirral, UK Posts: 7,498	Re: 3V00 Problem. have you given the outer rubber rim of the t.u. spool a going over with emery paper? could be hard and shiny=no torque

19th Apr 2007, 7:50 am	#13
Mike Phelan Dekatron Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Near Leeds, West Yorkshire, UK Posts: 4,609	Re: 3V00 Problem. OK - a few things from what I remember in the distant past .... The TU clutch top (alloy top-hat shaped bit) should be pressing firmly against the reel tyre whilst in record and PB. I do not remember any change in the clutch, from the original 3292 to the last 3V16s. The tension spring in the clutch is not critical and normally does not need touching. A recurring problem on older machines is that the various rivetted posts on the deck plate started to come loose, because of the high spring tension on various bits attached to the main gear. Thorn supplied a rivetting tool and we could get new posts as well. HTH PS: Steve - why not let us have a look at NVCF? We'll not need mains to check this part. __________________ Mike.

19th Apr 2007, 9:17 pm	#14
Steve_P Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bolton, Greater Manchester, UK. Posts: 6,644	Re: 3V00 Problem. Well, I've fixed it, but not 100% sure how! Took the Clutch out, cleaned everything again. Took the spindle off - Cleaned Spindle and underneath thourougly. Nothing came off, but I put them all back on with a different drive belt. Just as an 'I can't think of anything else' measure. Oddly enough, it worked. Had 2 drive belts and it didn't. This one and it did. Michael - They came from Grandata. Everyboby - thanks for your ideas and for listening to a halfway insane one handed TV Engineer. Now lets see what else happens... Cheers, Steve P __________________ If we've always had it, why is the Car Boot open? You're not sneaking another Old TV in are you...?