Stereo vs binaural?

[Tractorfan]

Hi,
I've just watched a couple of YouTube videos about binaural microphones, dummy heads, etc. with church organ recitals recorded thus. They sound lovely and I've been listening with headphones as recommended, but I can't hear any difference between that and stereo.
Is it just me, or am I missing something?
Cheers, Pete.

[paulsherwin]

The ambience should be different, though may not be obviously so with a well engineered conventional stereo recording. The Wiki article is comprehensive: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binaural_recording

[dave cox]

The best effect is with the natural environment where the sounds are all around. This is not really the case with a musical recital.

The BBC has done some really good examples, for example try "Slow radio"

dc

[Sergeauckland]

I too have never managed to hear any surround sounds from binaural recordings, on headphones or loudspeakers. The BBC broadcast a number of binaural radio plays, and a few Proms, but they totally failed with me. I have a few Nimbus Ambisonic CDs and those on headphones still give me the usual 'all in the head' result.

I never heard any Matrix H quadraphonic broadcasts, but play SQ and QS LPs from time to time, using a Sony SQD2020 decoder, and those work more or less OK depending on the recording.

I've supposed it's me, mostly, as many claim to hear the surround on headphones.

S

[lesmw0sec]

I did an experiment once from a stereo recording made with crossed ribbon mics in a church. In addition to the usual L & R speakers, added a sum LS at the front and a difference LS at the back. It was quite uncanny to hear some coughing from the congregation behind me!

[jamesperrett]

The effectiveness of binaural recordings very much depends on how similar the shape of your ears are to the dummy head used for the recording. I don't find recordings made with the standard Neumann dummy head to be particularly convincing.

I have heard it said that the most convincing dummy head recordings use small microphones in the recordist's ears - however, they tend to work best when the listener is the recordist who made the recordings.

Ambisonic and other surround sound formats can be turned into binaural by using a Head Related Transfer Function but the function needs to be fine tuned for each listener to be convincing (as I understand it).

[dave walsh]

When the film maker and artist Derek Jarman was dying he lost his sight. Characteristically he made a film called Blue consisting entirely of a blue screen and a soundtrack. It "sounded" improbable but is quite hypnotic when [or if] you can "view" it either way. It was recorded in binaural sound to emphasise [I think] the images created in your mind. The BBC, actually a pioneer with binaural sound [30's] as I recall may have been involved and I think it was broadcast by them and CH4 at the same time. It's a striking moment when Derek leaves hospital and is nearly run down by a cyclist. You really feel that he's next to you as the cyclist calls out "ARE YOU BLIND?" it really projects. I always say that listening is a psychological process [re Hi-Fi for example] so not everyone will respond in the same way. I didn't use headphones but got the same effect. I once had a FS TV that reproduced the environmental sounds of Australia incredibly at the back of the room without binaural intervention... during Neighbours!

Dave W

[Electronpusher0]

Originally Posted by lesmw0sec

I did an experiment once from a stereo recording made with crossed ribbon mics in a church. In addition to the usual L & R speakers, added a sum LS at the front and a difference LS at the back. It was quite uncanny to hear some coughing from the congregation behind me!

Some time ago I built a similar system but with the rear difference signal delayed by a bucket brigade delay line. This increased the apparent rear distance. The rear speakers were just behind the listeners (the sofa) and the effect was impressive.

I dismantled the system when we moved.

Peter

[emeritus]

From what I recall from having read an article in the 1990's, ordinary two-mike stereo produces a sound image where you can localise sounds in a horizontal plane. The experimental system described in the article used a dummy head to replicate the operation of the ear with the object of allowing sound localisation in both the horizontal and vertical axes.

[dave walsh]

I had a low cost four channel set up once Electron/Emeritus [info from Wireless World]. Just two redundant car speakers [in Series] from Spkr L+ to R+ behind the couch at the back of the room. Some LP's were better than other, especially the Beach Boys "Surf's Up" 1977 [which is actually nothing much to do with "Surfing" but a very early Eco promoting effort [eg "Don't Go Near The Water" pollution!]. The explanation was that the 180 degree, out of phase, signal picked up by the studio stereo microphone was being extracted but I'm no expert. It was cheap, effective and you could hear the water lapping

Dave W

The TV I mentioned was an early 32" LG FS [1996] with what looked like a cinema screen back then, housed in a massive Radiogram style cabinet. The sound was very good indeed, because of the weight but failed and I was advised to avoid switching it on again as that risked a cascade in the audio section. I've still got it but I've not seen another. Old but more modern sets aren't squirreled away anymore but scrapped for their metals etc

[Andrew2]

Originally Posted by dave walsh

I had a low cost four channel set up once Electron/Emeritus [info from Wireless World]. Just two redundant car speakers [in Series] from Spkr L+ to R+ behind the couch at the back of the room. Some LP's were better than other, especially the Beach Boys "Surf's Up" 1977 [which is actually nothing much to do with "Surfing" but a very early Eco promoting effort [eg "Don't Go Near The Water" pollution!]. The explanation was that the 180 degree, out of phase, signal picked up by the studio stereo microphone was being extracted but I'm no expert. It was cheap, effective and you could hear the water lapping

Dave W

That's interesting. On their album 'Holland', the track 'Trader' starts with a voice saying 'Hi'. It always takes me by surprise as the voice seems to come from well outside the normal 'between the speakers' stage. There's no mention of surround effects on the sleeve.
I too did a lot of experimentation with 'Hafler' type setups like yours and used it to get rid of vocals in order to hear the instrumental techniques better. Some of the sounds which emerged were surprising.

[G6Tanuki]

I never had any experience of Binaural, but did play around for a while with the Hafler method of including an extra speaker.

Some stuff sounded OK, Trick of the Tail by Genesis is one I remember being impressively improved, likewise Spectral Mornings by Steve Hackett.

[John_BS]

Virtual Barber shop on YouTube
https://youtu.be/IUDTlvagjJA

[Tractorfan]

Hi,
Probably not related to my original thread, but I remember listening to Pink Floyd's 'Atom Heart Mother' LP for the first time as a teenager and hearing a motorbike on the left channel being driven off even further left.
How impressed was I! Not binaural at all of course, just the right channel fading the bike sound out, but I loved the effect.
Thanks for your replies, and glad it's not just me!
Cheers, Pete.