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Old 29th Jun 2020, 2:26 pm   #1
slidertogrid
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Default Matsui saved...

As a follow up to this thread. https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...d.php?t=160228
I thought I would post the conclusion. I put the set to one side as it looked to have had very little use and I thought it was too good to put it back in a skip.
I sneaked it into my elderly parents garage to save hauling it into my loft and promised it would not be there for ever as my mum does not share my affection for "old junk"..

My father passed away recently and my mother has been asking me to clear some of the stuff in the garage which dad kept that she doesn't want (which included a very nice car!)
During the time the set had been in the garage I had found a scrap set in the bins soaking wet and broken I had salvaged the scancoils with a plan in mind, so I took the Matsui home and took it apart.
Then I spotted a problem. The Matsui has a mini neck tube the salvaged coils were standard .
I could see that at some point condensation had run down the cone of the tube and there were some green solidified drips on the bottom of the tube.
I gently released the convergence magnet assembly noting it's position and removed the coils.
I found two small spots of green corrosion, one cleaned off with no apparent damage, the other had corroded through the wire.
I cleaned the ends of the wire and re-soldered it using a small piece of wire so I could extend it slightly and move it away from the other windings.
Then I loosely refitted the coils and tried the set.
Success ! Gone was the distorted raster!
So I removed the coils and insulated my repair with two pack glue, I also ran a little over the other area where the corrosion had cleaned off in case there had been any damage to the enamel insulation.
I have so far refitted the coils and run the set for an hour, so far so good.
Next job is to get my crosshatch generator on it and check the convergence

Rich
P.S The black bar at the bottom and the tinted strip at the top are due to the camera and are not visible on the raster.
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Last edited by slidertogrid; 29th Jun 2020 at 2:32 pm. Reason: Postscript
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Old 29th Jun 2020, 4:49 pm   #2
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Default Re: Matsui saved...

You were lucky, possibly as it hadn't been run for too long like that.
Your convergence may not be perfect, but should be good enough for ordinary viewing.
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Old 30th Jun 2020, 3:26 pm   #3
slidertogrid
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Default Re: Matsui saved...

I put the pattern generator on the set this morning and I am really lucky the convergence and purity are spot on!
Now all I need is a vintage gamer with a few beer tokens to swap!
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Old 30th Jun 2020, 6:52 pm   #4
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Default Re: Matsui saved...

Quote:
Originally Posted by slidertogrid View Post
I put the pattern generator on the set this morning and I am really lucky the convergence and purity are spot on!
Now all I need is a vintage gamer with a few beer tokens to swap!
That would be me then!

Unfortunately Im a bit far away in Liverpool but if the FCS can help then Id like that set - I used to have the Saisho branded version (CT141 iirc) in silver on my Commodore 64. The lopt went while it still in warranty and Mastercare took forever to fix it during which time I was reduced to using a Rigonda 5 b&w portable....

Cheers,

Kev
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Old 30th Jun 2020, 8:28 pm   #5
slidertogrid
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Hi Kev
Ok see if you can do anything on the FCS, the set is complete with box, instructions, headphone and remote handset. There is also a Mastercare service label on the back just to give you nightmares!
If you manage to organise FCS PM me and we will take it from there.
Rich
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Old 1st Jul 2020, 4:13 pm   #6
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Default Re: Matsui saved...

Nice job there Rich.
I used to repair cartloads of these and the Saisho equivalent. Saisho were sold by Dixons, Matsui were Currys. Very straightforward and all the common spares were available from SEME etc. They were reliable with mainly PSU faults.[Change the PSU chip and the overvoltage protection R2M diode, check everything,put back on, soak test and write out the bill.
To my advantage some guys would not touch these brands. They considered them the Trailer Park Trash of the TV World. I like the so called Trailer Trash and other own brands such as TRIUMPH [Currys and AUTOVOX [Comet].They were some of the best receivers available at that time.

Their video recorders were the same. Super reliable predictable machines but again some repair guys turned their noses up at them preferring to spend hours on some snooty make that gave little return for your labours. They were some of the first to leave the trade.
Keep up the good work. John.
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Old 1st Jul 2020, 8:52 pm   #7
mark pirate
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Default Re: Matsui saved...

I bought the teletext version back in 1987, the only new TV I have ever purchased.
It had one repair in the early 90's, and it is still going strong today!
I agree that Matsui/Saisho were underrated, but many have outlasted the more upmarket brands.

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Old 1st Jul 2020, 9:30 pm   #8
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Default Re: Matsui saved...

Great save and the convergence is spot on! It is indeed strange that these "cheaper " sets have lasted the test of time.
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Old 2nd Jul 2020, 5:25 am   #9
Kyle__B
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For about 30 years everything in my family was a Matsui and I think my sister even had this model. The tellies and videos were excellent, the stereos weren't. Nice to see this again.
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Old 2nd Jul 2020, 9:25 am   #10
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Default Re: Matsui saved...

Agreed - we used to be happy to see a Matsui like this - a drawer full of STR 50103s and R2Ms was what you needed.
Ditto the Orion made videos needing a 2SB for the 820 series or a belt kit and limiter post for the later ones. The final ones tended to need reel tables that incorporated the clutches which sprung apart, but no real bother. Who would prefer to do a G-deck or Charlie in a busy workshop?
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Old 2nd Jul 2020, 9:47 am   #11
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Default Re: Matsui saved...

Matsui vcr,s and the small tv,s just kept on running,I certainly knew I could fix them in the house not the workshop.
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Old 2nd Jul 2020, 10:20 am   #12
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Default Re: Matsui saved...

This first generation of 'in house' as they were called TVs and videos were mostly made by the Japanese Orion Electric company, one of the better quality of the less well known manufacturers. It was the later sets that started to go down market. The one chassis that comes to mind was the Chinese Onwa chassis which appeared in even well known brands the 1990s.

Alan.
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Old 2nd Jul 2020, 12:52 pm   #13
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Default Re: Matsui saved...

The Onwa chassis was ruined by just two cheap 47uf capacitors in the power supply. The important one was in the voltage sensing circuit. It went O/C or partly so causing the H.T. to rise eventually destroying the line output transistor. It was then brought in for repair.

By then it had over run the tube heater resulting in a flat picture when the heater was supplied with the correct voltage. It was powered from the line output stage.

This fault also occurred on certain Goodmans chassis and others so it was not unique to Onwa. I could not believe it when I discovered the chassis was also fitted in a JVC!

This could not happen with Matsui and Saisho models due to the 'cowbar' R2M diode across the H.T. line. Just one single cheap diode would have saved a mess.Where do the years go? John.
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Old 2nd Jul 2020, 1:33 pm   #14
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Default Re: Matsui saved...

I certainly remember repairing these sets back in the 90s but I can't remember many faults other than the scancoil failure and the STR and diode mentioned. I do remember the buttons falling off the tip switches when you were putting the chassis back in!

Was the Onwa chassis used in the brightly coloured Bush sets made in the late 1990s? I remember repairing loads with the two 4.7 mfd capacitors gone causing high HT/EHT!
John Lewis sold these Bush sets with a five year guarantee (God help them) for about the same price as us but we only gave the manufacturers standard year. what I later found out was they would put a set in the window at a much reduced price when they had sold out. This was done to upset other dealers price promise, But if you tried to buy one they would tell you it was out of stock. When you said you would have the one from the window they said they couldn't sell you that as it belonged to " The window display company" and wasn't their stock...

I got a bit fed up with customers saying they could get it from Lewis's cheaper as we didn't make much on the sets they also expected us to deliver and install it in the price but when buying from town were quite happy with cash and carry...
When someone said I can get it from Lewis's (for say 149) when we were 169 I would reply Oh well I can't compete with that you better buy it from them they would reply "yes but they haven't got any" |I would then say Ah well when we haven't got any ours are only 129...
I would then explain the price promise swindle and usually ended up with a sale. "just drop it off on your way home would you?"
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Old 2nd Jul 2020, 3:10 pm   #15
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Default Re: Matsui saved...

The usual result with the Onwa chassis when the two capacitors failed was the 12v zener south of the LOPT would go short, taking the series wirewound resistor with it, or else burning the board up. So it did have a crowbar of a sort!
The JVC version had lots of modifications to supposedly make it more reliable. Guess what they didn't upgrade?
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Old 2nd Jul 2020, 4:48 pm   #16
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Default Re: Matsui saved...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heatercathodeshort View Post
Nice job there Rich.
I used to repair cartloads of these and the Saisho equivalent. Saisho were sold by Dixons, Matsui were Currys. Very straightforward and all the common spares were available from SEME etc. They were reliable with mainly PSU faults.[Change the PSU chip and the overvoltage protection R2M diode, check everything,put back on, soak test and write out the bill.
To my advantage some guys would not touch these brands. They considered them the Trailer Park Trash of the TV World. I like the so called Trailer Trash and other own brands such as TRIUMPH [Currys and AUTOVOX [Comet].They were some of the best receivers available at that time.

Their video recorders were the same. Super reliable predictable machines but again some repair guys turned their noses up at them preferring to spend hours on some snooty make that gave little return for your labours. They were some of the first to leave the trade.
Keep up the good work. John.
The Rumbelows equivalent was the Osaki range of portable tvs and video recorders.
The name originated after the buyers were returning from a trip to Osaka so i am lead to believe.
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Old 2nd Jul 2020, 7:45 pm   #17
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Kong Wah video engineering was from Hong Kong and I think they also had a factory in the UK (which made it easy for Panasonic, JVC and local brands to buy from them), but it indeed didn't stop them from forgetting to use a crowbar.

In the Netherlands we sometimes called Onwa, "Onding" which is Dutch slang for shitty thing (Google translate says "non entity" which I guess is also correct when translated literally).
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Old 3rd Jul 2020, 12:13 pm   #18
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Default Re: Matsui saved...

fond memories examining one of those sanken power supplies for the first time, almost not believing that the multi-leg transistor-thing and diode was all that was required, after some of the major blow ups of some other makes. Didnt someone do a little kit with these in plus a fuse, capacitors and rectifier diodes, maybe willow vale? Our chip shop had the saisho portable on a swivel bracket over the fryer for years, always on !
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Old 3rd Jul 2020, 2:58 pm   #19
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That doesn't surprise me - these sets were tough and usually bought by, shall we say, the lower end of the market where they had to put up with all sorts of abuse and usually came through it.
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Old 3rd Jul 2020, 4:54 pm   #20
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Default Re: Matsui saved...

Hi All

Was this the one that was quite dangerous and would set itself on fire? I remember reading in TELEVISION that if left on standby they would dry out a cap, all was well as the cap wasnt needed in operation from standby, but if a powercut happened and was then restored the dried out cap then caused a series of events that could and did cause some to catch fire, i think the story even said about one person loosing their life when one in a bedroom went up in the middle of the night after a power cut.

Cheers

Mike
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