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Old 26th Feb 2010, 4:44 pm   #1
kalee20
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Default 'Television' magazine - 'Practical Television' - distinct?

I'm curious about the magazine 'Television' which has been reported as starting in 1951 as 'Practical Television' and then changing its title to just 'Television' before dying mid 2008.

There was another magazine 'Television' which started March 1928 claiming to be the world's first TV magazine, changing its title through 'Television, Short-wave and Electronics', before ending its life in 2002 as 'Electronic Engineering Design'. I don't know about the first issues, but certainly in the 1950's it was generally aimed at the professional designers. See photos below of the No. 1 'Television' cover, and also Electronic Engineering 1948 (where under the title, you can see mention that it incorporates 'Electronics', 'Television' and 'Short-wave World')

So, the final 'Television' magazine - was its origin truly from the FJ Camm / Newnes stable (dropping the 'Practical'), or was a separate enterprise from a publisher who perhaps bought the title 'Television' from Electronic Engineering?
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Old 26th Feb 2010, 4:56 pm   #2
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Default Re: 'Television' magazine - 'Practical Television' - distinct?

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Originally Posted by kalee20 View Post
There was another magazine 'Television' which started March 1928 claiming to be the world's first TV magazine, changing its title through 'Television, Short-wave and Electronics', before ending its life in 2002 as 'Electronic Engineering Design'.
The journal you have shown was published by the Television Society. This was started by Baird. The TS gained a Royal Charter in 1962(?) and so became the RTS. When I joined in 1975 the magazine was called (I think) the RTS Journal. Some years later (1980s?) it changed to Television. There was some confusion having 2 magazines with the same name. The RTS's journal is still called Television.

AFAIK, the TS/RTS's journal has always been exclusively published by the TS/RTS and has never been incorporated in any other publications.
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Old 26th Feb 2010, 5:19 pm   #3
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Default Re: 'Television' magazine - 'Practical Television' - distinct?

Well, the 1928 cover I showed is copied from the March 1988 edition of Electronic Engineering, as the diamond jubilee edition they reproduced "Our First Front Cover", together with several exerpts from subsequent significant issues. So the publishers of Electronic Engineering maintained continuity and ownership of the title even 60 years later! And the final magazine, which I have (November 2002 'Electronic Engineering Design') does likewise.

But yes, the 1928 cover does mention the Television Society. So how did the paths separate? There's no clue here in the magazines I have. Perhaps the TS sold the magazine to a separate publisher who subsequently changed the title and turned a blind eye to the TS then re-starting a journal of its own also called 'Television'.

Within the current TS journal, is there any clue how long it's been going? I'm not lucky enough to have seen a copy! And what about the other 'Television' magazine which lasted into 2008?
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Old 26th Feb 2010, 5:54 pm   #4
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Default Re: 'Television' magazine - 'Practical Television' - distinct?

The Television magazine that closed in 2008 was Practical Television which started in 1951. Nice and simple though there is a small pre-history as it split away from Practical Wireless.

There was also the pre-war Television and Short Wave World published by Bernard Jones Publications Ltd which claims to be the "First Television Journal in the World". The April 1939 issue is No 134, Vol XII. I wonder if this is the true ancestor of EED etc.

The TS/RTS might debate the priority of dates

I have been a member of the RTS continuously since 1975. The journal name changed from RTSJ to Television at some point between then and now.

The picture you show must be the TS's journal and may be the wrong one in this context.
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Old 26th Feb 2010, 6:37 pm   #5
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Default Re: 'Television' magazine - 'Practical Television' - distinct?

OK, that's the Practical Television / Television sorted, thanks Jeffrey. (Yes, Practical Wireless incorporated TV until it split away).

But, the 1928 Television cover definitely isn't the wrong one in this context, because the photo I show was taken directly from one of the pages of Electronic Engineering 1988. Unless the publishers have misarchived things! Perhaps it's a bit like 'Marconigraph' which became 'Wireless World' and then 'Electronics World'?

However, your dates do tie up, as if March 1928 is Vol 1 No 1 then April 1939 would be Vol 12 No 2 (ie magazine 134 if no months were skipped) for the title you mention.
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Old 26th Feb 2010, 7:27 pm   #6
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Default Re: 'Television' magazine - 'Practical Television' - distinct?

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Originally Posted by kalee20 View Post
I'm curious about the magazine 'Television' which has been reported as starting in 1951 as 'Practical Television' and then changing its title to just 'Television' before dying mid 2008.
To be precise, this magazine started in April 1950, as can be seen from the scan below of my copy of volume 1 no. 1 - though it existed as a supplement to Practical Wireless for a few months beforehand.
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 12:55 am   #7
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Default Practical Television Mag [Newnes]

I've been trying to collate some of my magazine collection-starting with TV. This led me to the helpful thread started by Kalee 20 on 26/2/10 [missed it at the time] titled Television Magazine-Practical Television-distinct? Perhaps MODS may think it appropriate to reopen the earlier thread and tack this on by way of simplification?

The first part relates to confusion about the pre-war publication of a "Television" magazine and the resulting different lineages which seem to have a [sort of] satisfactory [although complicated] explanation.

The other thread matter is more specific to the history of Practical Television as per Camm/Newnes which is what I've been looking at this week. There is general agreement, re a split from PW and [as Dave Moll says] the first issue of Practical Television appears in April 1950.

I haven't that many earlier issues but working backwards, I'd arrived at April 1950 for No 1 myself [round of applause!].
As it occurred to me that I had not paid enough attention to Practical Wireless [re TV references] I was starting from my earliest post war PW's which are from 1946.... the year of Baird's death here in Bexhill.

I then noticed a bit more background-

PW becomes Practical Wireless and Practical Television in March 1949.

As indicated, Practical Television is a separate item from April 1950.

My earliest Practical Television [Vol 1 No 5] is August 1950.

From Vol 1 No 6 though-the title changes to Practical Television and Television Times. This is all in an equal large typeface through to my last one at Vol 6 No 64 September 1955. Dave Moll's image of Vol 1 No 1 therefore clarifies that Television Times must have been bought in after the first four issues. I notice that "and Television Times" continues on through the full colour covers in the sixties and beyond but in a smaller typeface! This is a bit confusing when just looking at the covers and probably needs more input from those in the know. Any comments or info would be very welcome, even if you think it's all a bit pedantic! Time for a lie down I think or maybe light [ish] refreshment!

Dave W

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Old 11th Mar 2014, 11:22 am   #8
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Default Re: 'Television' magazine - 'Practical Television' - distinct?

I have found the following note about PT that I made some time ago whilst trying to sort out some of the history myself:
Quote:
Practical Television was a supplement to Practical Wireless, then a separate publication (from September 1934), for a short while before the war, restarting as a supplement to Practical Wireless in March 1949, and became a separate publication in April 1950 until its final demise in June 2008 (having dropped “Practical” from its title in October 1970).
The pre-war publication of Practical Television was completely independent of that published by the Royal Television Society under the name of simply Television (subtitled The Journal of the Royal Television Society). I believe that, at least for part of the time, its full title was Practical Television and Short Wave News. Unfortunately, most of my information about the pre-war situation is hearsay, as my collection starts with the post-war publications.

As to the "Television Times" issue, I'll check up when this started and ended. Mr Walsh isn't the only pedantic Dave here!
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 11:45 am   #9
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Default Re: 'Television' magazine - 'Practical Television' - distinct?

I mean no disrespect at all but I seem to think I have heard the term "Camms Comics" and wonder if this could be due to the amount of magazines that were related and published by the same people?

In my collection of electronics magazines I still have nearly all the PW magazines that I have purchased and one or two Practical Television magazines that I purchased "used" or previously cherished.

Tony
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 11:58 am   #10
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Default Re: 'Television' magazine - 'Practical Television' - distinct?

The term "Camm's Comics" was used (with, I believe, affection rather than disrespect) for the range of magazines published by F.J. Camm. It seemed that one publication would give birth to another. Hobbies magazine gave birth to Practical Wireless in 1932, which in turn gave birth to Practical Television (twice - in 1934 and 1949) and later to Practical Electronics in 1964. There may well be other members of the family of which I am not aware.
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 12:00 pm   #11
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Default Re: 'Television' magazine - 'Practical Television' - distinct?

FJ Camm was a very prolific writer, both under his name and Pseudonyms. Not just radio either, but many other subjects. I've heard that term too, but I don't know how it came about. There was quite a lot of repetition of material in some of the books I have, so that may have been a factor, or just professional rivalry.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_James_Camm

Edit: Crossed with Dave
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 12:08 pm   #12
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Default Re: 'Television' magazine - 'Practical Television' - distinct?

I can confirm that the first issue of Practical Television to include ... and Television Times is, indeed, volume 1 no. 6 (September-October 1950). The final issue with this inclusion is volume 11 no. 128 (May 1961).
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 1:17 pm   #13
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Default Re: 'Television' magazine - 'Practical Television' - distinct?

Hello,

In the mid 1930s "Television Times" appears to have been an adjunct to "Popular Wireless" magazine as this picture shows:- http://reynardcollectables.files.wor...0/hpim5304.jpg

Yours, Richard
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 3:33 pm   #14
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Default Re: 'Television' magazine - 'Practical Television' - distinct?

Thanks for the quick responses folks. Having found Kalee's thread I haven't ventured into the interwar years yet but all info is welcome.

Dave Moll and Jeffrey [penguin] are significant sources of enlightenment!
It was great to see your scan of P TV 1 [April 1950] Dave [the Horse Race edition] and to have confirmation that the "and Television Times" part concludes in 1961.

For clarity, when you talk about "and Practical Television" as a supplement to PW from 1949 I presume you do mean supplementary within the magazine rather than as anything seperate-particularly as TV articles are included and listed on the front covers.

One more point-do we know anything about the Television Times added in 1949 and then subtracted in 1961?
Would this publication have been anything to do with listings or was it a similar technical mag previously?Bought up to avoid competition perhaps?
The fact that it remains in the heading for so long might suggest it had a large readership of it's own perhaps?

You're right there's probalya a fine line between pedantry and trying to get thing right! Hopefully we are the latter.! If you've been in the RTS since 1975 Jeffrey, I'm wondering what the age of the oldest members might be now?

Dave W
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 4:36 pm   #15
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Default Re: 'Television' magazine - 'Practical Television' - distinct?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dave walsh View Post
For clarity, when you talk about "and Practical Television" as a supplement to PW from 1949 I presume you do mean supplementary within the magazine rather than as anything seperate-particularly as TV articles are included and listed on the front covers.
Your presumption is correct. In 1949-1950 Practical Wireless simply contained an embedded section dedicated to television topics.

Obviously, I don't know exactly how this was handled in 1934, but the initial PW articles in the 1932 Hobbies magazines that I have weren't even a distinct section.
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 6:13 pm   #16
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Default Re: 'Television' magazine - 'Practical Television' - distinct?

Ok Dave -thanks for that, very usefull, nothing missing! Im still hopefull someone will know about the Television Times.

Dave W
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 9:02 pm   #17
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Default Re: 'Television' magazine - 'Practical Television' - distinct?

Hi Gents, I have copies of Electronic Engineering from the early 40's to the late 50's and had not previously noticed the reference to Television in the title.
From the content of the copies I have, it was a professional magazine, not for the hobbyist unless pretty advanced. It continued on until the 80's as a free to professional engineers magazine.
I believe it was managed as the professional version of Wireless World by the Newnes group, as it often contained the same adverts as WW on a month by month basis.
I would be interested if anyone has copies to spare.

Ed
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 10:03 pm   #18
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Default Re: 'Television' magazine - 'Practical Television' - distinct?

More here: https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...d.php?t=100614
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 10:33 pm   #19
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Default Re: 'Television' magazine - 'Practical Television' - distinct?

I thought you would appear Ed re my attempts to find copies of EE for you in the past. That's a good link from Bill [above] with further access to Vol 1 1949 [at post 6*] for those who haven't got it. Everything seems to be gravitating naturally to Kaylee's thread which helps a lot but clearly Inspector Moll was the first one on this case.
Something about Television Times would now be great!
Dave

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Old 12th Mar 2014, 3:51 pm   #20
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Default Re: 'Television' magazine - 'Practical Television' - distinct?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed_Dinning View Post
Hi Gents, I have copies of Electronic Engineering... It continued on until the 80's as a free to professional engineers magazine.
In fact till 2002! It was a shame when this one disappeared. Not much television in the last few years though.
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