UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Powered By Google Custom Search Vintage Radio and TV Service Data

Go Back   UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum > General Vintage Technology > General Vintage Technology Discussions

Notices

General Vintage Technology Discussions For general discussions about vintage radio and other vintage electronics etc.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 29th Jun 2021, 1:29 pm   #1
Phil G4SPZ
Dekatron
 
Phil G4SPZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Bewdley, Worcestershire, UK.
Posts: 4,411
Default Battery scans - copyright issues

Can anyone advise, please? The museum where I work as a volunteer is planning a 1959 shop counter display featuring Ever Ready HT/LT batteries for battery valve portable sets. The artwork is readily available online, and I have offered to help construct the display, but the question of copyright has been raised.

Obviously this is a different application from an individual enthusiast wishing to build a replica battery for a restored set.

If anyone has experience in dealing with replica branded packaging in the museum sector, I should be interested to hear from you.

Many thanks,
__________________
Phil

“The place where optimism most flourishes is the lunatic asylum” - Henry Havelock Ellis
Phil G4SPZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th Jun 2021, 2:07 pm   #2
paulsherwin
Moderator
 
paulsherwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Oxford, UK
Posts: 21,900
Default Re: Battery scans - copyright issues

It may be worth contacting the management at the other big industrial or working museums to ask if they've had to deal with similar issues - Black Country and Beamish are the obvious ones, but there are lots of others now. The tram museum at Crich has undoubtedly had to do period reconstructions with copyright implications. A quick email is all that's required.

I don't even know who owns the old Ever Ready trademarks now.

Do you volunteer at Blists Hill? I visited it a couple of years ago, nice day out.

[Later] I see you have clarified the museums involved in another thread.
paulsherwin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th Jun 2021, 2:40 pm   #3
The Philpott
Nonode
 
The Philpott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Colchester, Essex, UK.
Posts: 2,728
Default Re: Battery scans - copyright issues

I have to say that in such a situation i would just do it and wait and see if there's a complaint. You can't really be seen to be raking in revenue on the shoulders of a copyright holder, so the worst that could be expected would be a polite request to remove from display. If you had such replica artwork on sale in the museum shop that could) be different..
Dave
The Philpott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th Jun 2021, 2:46 pm   #4
paulsherwin
Moderator
 
paulsherwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Oxford, UK
Posts: 21,900
Default Re: Battery scans - copyright issues

Dave, you and I might do that, but museums have to be very careful with such issues. They are usually registered charities, and have all sorts of legal responsibilities. Phil is right to be cautious.
paulsherwin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th Jun 2021, 3:04 pm   #5
broadgage
Octode
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: North Somerset, UK.
Posts: 1,785
Default Re: Battery scans - copyright issues

Would the copyright holder even KNOW that the items on display are copies or replicas ? Rather than long expired and now non functional original items.

They would surely have no objection to a display of original items ? Free advertising.
broadgage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th Jun 2021, 3:25 pm   #6
Radio Wrangler
Moderator
 
Radio Wrangler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Fife, Scotland, UK.
Posts: 17,917
Default Re: Battery scans - copyright issues

If it's a registered trademark, it needs to be registered somewhere. Patent office? Companies house? So you could try to ask them. If they aren't friendly, create your own brand. Some parody like Never Ready is a bit too close but how about Always Flat - something they wouldn't register in a month of Sundays.

David
__________________
Can't afford the volcanic island yet, but the plans for my monorail and the goons' uniforms are done
Radio Wrangler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th Jun 2021, 3:44 pm   #7
Nuvistor
Dekatron
 
Nuvistor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Wigan, Greater Manchester, UK.
Posts: 8,586
Default Re: Battery scans - copyright issues

Is this a possibility?
https://trademarks.ipo.gov.uk/ipo-tm.../UK00900209486

If not the site has details of EverReady in the USA.
__________________
Frank
Nuvistor is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 29th Jun 2021, 3:45 pm   #8
Cobaltblue
Moderator
 
Cobaltblue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Exeter, Devon and Poole, Dorset UK.
Posts: 4,988
Default Re: Battery scans - copyright issues

A silly question but is it the copyright of the original Battery designs that is of concern or the copyright of the scans.

If it's the scans contact someone like Michael Watterson he has scanned and cleaned up many Ever Ready and Vidor "nets"
I'm sure he would be happy to allow you use of his scans.
If its the original design you would need to ask Ever Ready.

Michaels web site http://www.techtir.com/ seems to be offline at the moment however.

Cheers

Mike T
__________________
Don't care if it was a bargain why's it in my kitchen
Mike T BVWS member.
www.cossor.co.uk
Cobaltblue is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 29th Jun 2021, 4:12 pm   #9
mole42uk
Nonode
 
mole42uk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Bristol, UK
Posts: 2,245
Default Re: Battery scans - copyright issues

You could always make them with the label Ever-Ready - apparently the Eveready company hasn't used that since 1914 so probably wouldn't quibble about it!
__________________
Richard

Index:
recursive loop: see recursive loop
mole42uk is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 29th Jun 2021, 4:17 pm   #10
agardiner
Hexode
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Thetford, Norfolk, UK.
Posts: 400
Default Re: Battery scans - copyright issues

The name Ever Ready is now owned by Energiser. I doubt they will object, so I would get on and email them.
agardiner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th Jun 2021, 4:27 pm   #11
ThePillenwerfer
Octode
 
ThePillenwerfer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Sheffield, South Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 1,396
Default Re: Battery scans - copyright issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobaltblue View Post
A silly question but is it the copyright of the original Battery designs that is of concern or the copyright of the scans.
Just for the record, the battery labels I've produced — in the sticky thread here and on my web-site — can be freely used by anybody as far as I'm concerned. Obviously I can't speak for the trademark owners and refer purely to any rights I may hold for my efforts.
ThePillenwerfer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th Jun 2021, 4:46 pm   #12
emeritus
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Brentwood, Essex, UK.
Posts: 4,382
Default Re: Battery scans - copyright issues

I used to have to know about Copyright for my day job, but the law has changed somewhat in the 10 years or so since I retired and I have not kept up to date with developments. Any decent firm of Patent Attorneys should give you 30 mins free consultation and should be aware of the present situation.

Some general points which I think are still valid, (but don't rely on them!)

Registered Trade marks have be renewed every 10 years, and it is unlikely that trade marks from the 1950's would have been renewed.

Copyright may or may not still exist in the 1950's packaging.

The term of any copyright existing in the artwork would in the first instance be computed from the death of he author. I doubt that the original author's identity could be established, in which case the commencement date would run from the date of first publication.

Before European law got involved, the 50 year term for anonymous works would have expired by now, so there would be no existing copyright to infringe. However, copyright term has been progressively extended during the past couple of decades, resulting in the restoration of certain types of lapsed copyright. It's all very confusing, and dates are important to know what law applies.

The term of copyright for anonymous works used to be 50 years, but as a consequence of European harmonisation it is now I think 70 years.

The date of first publication will determine which law applies. If it was before 1956, then the 1911 Act applies. If before 1989, then it is the 1956 Act.

I really can't see a large company bothering with a museum that is only making one or two replicas for an exhibit. As noted.by others, to be sure you would need to contact the successors in title to Ever Ready and explain what you want to do. When I was with GEC, they were happy for third parties to reproduce their old stuff as long as acknowledgement was given. Someone was actually given permission to make and sell reproductions of one of their old books on valves without having to pay any royalties.

It's a completely different story where large-scale reproductions of expensive vintage stuff is concerned. The following link dealing with reproductions of vintage jaguar cars in Sweden gives some idea of the complexity of copyright law that have been brought about by EC-initiated law amendments. But in that case the vintage design is commercially valuable, unlike repro radio batteries.

https://ipkitten.blogspot.com/2021/0...plica.html?m=1

Last edited by emeritus; 29th Jun 2021 at 4:54 pm. Reason: typos
emeritus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th Jun 2021, 8:27 pm   #13
mole42uk
Nonode
 
mole42uk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Bristol, UK
Posts: 2,245
Default Re: Battery scans - copyright issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by agardiner View Post
The name Ever Ready is now owned by Energiser. I doubt they will object, so I would get on and email them.
I thought it was Eveready that was owned by Energizer. Do they still have a claim on Ever-Ready?
__________________
Richard

Index:
recursive loop: see recursive loop
mole42uk is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 29th Jun 2021, 8:37 pm   #14
McMurdo
Dekatron
 
McMurdo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Staffordshire Moorlands, UK.
Posts: 4,364
Default Re: Battery scans - copyright issues

I can't see any difference between displaying a reproduced product and a genuine one in the window. It's quite clear you're not trying to pass off one product based on the reputation enjoyed by another for financial gain or with nefarious intent, which is how I interpret (as an armchair amateur!) trademark infringement.
__________________
Kevin
McMurdo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th Jun 2021, 8:53 pm   #15
ThePillenwerfer
Octode
 
ThePillenwerfer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Sheffield, South Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 1,396
Default Re: Battery scans - copyright issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by mole42uk View Post
I thought it was Eveready that was owned by Energizer. Do they still have a claim on Ever-Ready?
My understanding is that the American company Ever Ready set up a British subsidiary which became a wholly separate company. The US firm was later renamed Eveready and in more recent times has traded as Energizer. When the British Ever Ready went bust the American Eveready/Energizer bought-up what was left.
ThePillenwerfer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th Jun 2021, 11:15 pm   #16
Phil G4SPZ
Dekatron
 
Phil G4SPZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Bewdley, Worcestershire, UK.
Posts: 4,411
Default Re: Battery scans - copyright issues

Many thanks to all for the helpful suggestions.

The idea is to display replicas of obsolete Ever Ready batteries, some of which were made in nearby Wolverhampton. The point is that photographs of the display could well appear al a future date in guide books and other publications sold by the Museum for profit, or even in commercial films shot on the premises, hence the need to avoid infringing any copyrights.

I will advise the Museum to try to contact Eveready/Energizer through official channels. I can't see why permission would be refused; we are intending to showcase the products of a once-famous British industry in a historical context.
__________________
Phil

“The place where optimism most flourishes is the lunatic asylum” - Henry Havelock Ellis
Phil G4SPZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th Jun 2021, 11:17 pm   #17
emeritus
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Brentwood, Essex, UK.
Posts: 4,382
Default Re: Battery scans - copyright issues

The new owners could simply have abandoned the older trade marks etc. When GEC relaunched as Marconi, they abandoned their (British) General Electric Trade Marks, and even placed an ad in the papers at the time of their relaunch, saying to the American General Electric that they were all yours now. Likewise, when Plessey got taken over by GEC, it was decided to abandon all the Plessey Registered Trade Marks by not paying the renewal fees when they fell due on their 10th anniversaries. The Plessey trade mark and CRT logo must have still been live in South Africa for the rights to become acquired by a South African company, who were still using the Plessey trade mark and roundel logo for their business a few years ago.
emeritus is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools



All times are GMT. The time now is 8:18 am.


All information and advice on this forum is subject to the WARNING AND DISCLAIMER located at https://www.vintage-radio.net/rules.html.
Failure to heed this warning may result in death or serious injury to yourself and/or others.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2002 - 2021, Paul Stenning.