BBC R5 splashing again.

[Andrew2]

I was just idly tuning around the MW today when I became aware of some sideband-splash on 889 KHz....but what was it coming from? I tuned each side but there was nothing strong enough to cause it. Then I realised that our old friend R5 from Moorside Edge was at it again.
I can detect it out to +/- 27 KHz on my 'proper' system upstairs, and I can hear it out to 20 KHz even on my portable.
I know these figures will include the width of the RX's IF filter, but still!(I used a 3KHz filter on the upstairs RX)
By comparison, our local GOLD 1458 is audible no further out than 12 KHz.

My Digital Dongle is out of service at the moment, so I can't post a waterfall display.

Looks OK to me, picture from my Perseus...

[paulsherwin]

Presumably you're not listening to Moorside Edge in Maidenhead though

True, Brookmans Park here so it's not a source problem then.

[Andrew2]

I've lashed up the dreaded dongle and done a comparison of R5, Gold and Absolute. The latter are pretty clean and stay within about +/- 6KHz, but R5 is visibly squirting stuff out up to 14 KHz on each (up to 20 KHz at a lower level) and it is audible beyond this. It's *very* audible and I suspect anyone closer to the TX site than I am (I'm about 15 miles to the southwest) would have that part of the band virtually written-off.
I adjusted my loop direction to get equal sigs on all three stations.
I know I'm always banging on about this kind of thing and may come across as a bit obsessed, but it makes me wonder what the engineers do all day...

[Herald1360]

Errrr..... what engineers?

Nobody employs engineers nowadays on the basis that they might come in handy to fix something unless there's a constant supply of somethings because it costs real money. Things that mostly work OK are just left until they fail completely or someone makes a big enough fuss about performance.

[Hybrid tellies]

I used this phone number, 03709 016 789 which is the the Radio and Television Investigation Service, to report a recent fault on the Droitwich 198Khz transmitter. Despite being late at night I spoke to a very helpful person and the fault was cleared within 2 hours. I actually heard them taking the transmitter off air a few times.
The problem you will have is if it is not causing a problem with sound quality or causing interference with another station they may not take the problem seriously.

[paulsherwin]

Arqiva staff do visit this forum, so well documented complaints here are as effective a way of getting faults cleared as any other. The complex contractual arrangements used in broadcasting today mean that there is no way for the public to contact Arqiva directly. The 'official' way to report something is to notify the BBC, but you are unlikely to engage with anyone who knows what they're doing and are likely to be fobbed off.

[Martin G7MRV]

Indeed we do Paul, and Ive passed this one onto my colleagues,

Sadly this equipment is old, and it is up to the broadcasters to decide if they wish to spend the money needed to overhaul it. Complaining about engineering standards is pointless, thats not what its about, its about value, and the value of the service is its cost against its users, something im sure the BBC know far more about than we do on here. There isnt an endless pot for maintaining these services, anyone who thinks we can just turn up and fix something regardless of costs really needs to learn about commercial economics.

The simple fact is that these days, MW and LW are minority services. We on here are biased as we use these with vintage equipment, but for the public at large, they really are little known and little used

[Andrew2]

All understood Martin.
Looking at the waterfall for R5, it looks as if there is a lot of HF content in the audio. Note the yellow segments out at the extremities of the sidebands, something which is not present on Absolute or Gold.

[Martin G7MRV]

I have heard back from my colleagues, none of our monitoring, nor the telemetry systems are indicating any problems. Indeed, I cannot detect anything abnormal either on my equipment, either on the spectrum analyser, RTL-SDR or by ear on the FRG-100. Im located to the east of Moorside Edge and well within coverage.

There have also been no reports from either Audience Services or our own monitoring volunteers.

[Martin G7MRV]

Originally Posted by Andrew2

but it makes me wonder what the engineers do all day...

What the couple of dozen engineers around the country do all day is maintain three major LW stations, dozens of MW sites, hundreds of VHF FM stations, both BBC and commercial, about 1,300 TV stations, dozens of DAB stations, microwave links, RBR links, utilities comms, Maritime and Coastguard Agency systems, RNLI systems, and public safety (police, ambulance, fire, prison service, diplomatic service) equipment, Muxing centers, playout centers, PMR systems, and amongst all that somehow have time to fit in some training and if theyre very luck lunch.

The days of a single service station having on site dedicated engineering ceased sometime before I was born

[paulsherwin]

I think many people are nostalgic about the era when big transmitter sites like Droitwich and Moorside Edge had substantial staff establishments, sometimes supporting dedicated social clubs and onsite catering. Off air monitoring was part of the normal operational routine, and transmission faults would be fixed very quickly.

As you say, they were all progressively demanned in the 1980s. They must seem quite spooky when somebody visits and turns the lights on now.

[Andrew2]

Interesting Martin.
So given that I guarded against overload effects by rotating the loop antenna for equal strength on all three stations, what could be causing the effect on R5 when it doesn't appear on the other two? And it's on my portable as well!

[Refugee]

Originally Posted by Hybrid tellies

I used this phone number, 03709 016 789 which is the the Radio and Television Investigation Service, to report a recent fault on the Droitwich 198Khz transmitter.

I noticed that too. I had a TR82 ready for a trip to the workshop for the red and black capacitors to be changed next time the batteries needed to go on charge.
The set is in use every day and I would not have had to put up with it for long as I have another set to stand in for it while it was in for repair. The service is now cancelled as it was the transmitter. It is in a location where FM reception is awful so 198 LW is the best solution.

[Martin G7MRV]

Originally Posted by Andrew2

Interesting Martin.
So given that I guarded against overload effects by rotating the loop antenna for equal strength on all three stations, what could be causing the effect on R5 when it doesn't appear on the other two? And it's on my portable as well!

Its really impossible for me to say, without actually inspecting your equipment and comparing it in the same location with mine. It could be something local, 'rusty bolt' effect even, it could be an artifact of your software, who knows, have you checked from another location using the same equipment?

All that can be said is that no other complaints have been received, either via audience services, via our own volunteer monitors, from the engineers themselves (yes some of them do use the service). Off air monitoring both here in Selby and at the SMC in Emley Moor (line of sight to Moorside) shows no problems. Telemetry shows no problems.

As annoying as it may be, there simply is no other evidence of a fault, and until such evidence is available, no further investigations can be made.

However, although no specific investigation job can be raised, the engineers are aware now and will give the kit the once over when next routinely visiting the station.

[Hybrid tellies]

I must admit R5L on 909 from Clevedon sounds very good. I enjoyed listening to the rugby commentary this afternoon. Can anyone in this area do a spectrum spread of this signal. My guess it's good with a nice audio response up to 6Khz.