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Vintage Audio (record players, hi-fi etc) Amplifiers, speakers, gramophones and other audio equipment.

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Old 24th Feb 2012, 9:11 am   #1
Ignatius
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Default Is this a real vintage HMV Gramophone?

I have joined this site because I love and interested about antiques but I don't know if it's genuine or not.

Here are some sample pics

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/440/gram2.jpg/
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Old 24th Feb 2012, 12:53 pm   #2
Paul Stenning
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Default Re: Is this a real vintage HMV Gramophone

It looks like a fake to me. The hole for the winding handle is too high up on the side of the case and the horn neck is not a smooth curve.

There are a lot of fakes around, mostly made in India and China. They are often known as "crap-o-phones" which sums them up rather well!

See http://www.oldcrank.com/articles/cra...roduction.html and http://www.mainspringpress.com/crapo.html which contain plenty of info on what to look out for.
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Old 24th Feb 2012, 1:03 pm   #3
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Default Re: Is this a real vintage HMV Gramophone

100% definitely fake. A nice ornament, but not much else.
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Old 24th Feb 2012, 1:46 pm   #4
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Default Re: Is this a real vintage HMV Gramophone

Made in India I believe.
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Old 24th Feb 2012, 3:20 pm   #5
Restorer79
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Default Re: Is this a real vintage HMV Gramophone

Have to agree, and from the looks of it a Cheap and Nasty copy too.
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Old 24th Feb 2012, 4:11 pm   #6
Darren-UK
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Default Re: Is this a real vintage HMV Gramophone

As this topic arises from time to time, we've decided to make one existing thread on fake gramophones sticky for ease of future reference.
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Old 24th Feb 2012, 8:24 pm   #7
mrmagnetophon
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Default Re: Is this a real vintage HMV Gramophone

Fake: I have a similar one, my parents paid a lot and thought it was real. You can always tell the real ones, very thick and heavy metal with a lot of smooth bends and such.

Chris
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Old 24th Feb 2012, 10:13 pm   #8
Darren-UK
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Default Re: Is this a real vintage HMV Gramophone?

On the plus side, these gramophones do actually work. What's more, if you get a good quality fake gramophone it may even manage half a record before rewinding becomes necessary.

Another advantage is the upwards-raked winding handle, courtesy of the motor which was originally in a portable, which helps avoid scraping your knuckles on the table during winding.

The bases of these fake-o-phones are good too. Being new they're likely to be free of mould, warping, woodworm etc. All the better if you're lucky enough to get one that's highly polished and aerosol varnished, has an immaculately preserved repro HMV transfer and is made of chipboard or, going rather more upmarket, MDF.

A further advantage is the amusement your visitors get when you show them your 'century old' horned gramophone - the very same one they saw being made during a holiday in India a month previously.

So it's all good and is certainly £30 well spent. Don't go over £35 though because you can pick up a secondhand Steepletone record player for that and they don't need winding up.

On a less lampooning note, if money's tight and you're happy to settle for a representation of a horned gramophone, know exactly what you're buying and don't pay very much then these things are fine.
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Old 26th Feb 2012, 12:45 pm   #9
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Default Re: Is this a real vintage HMV Gramophone?

Would not these gramophones be a source of motors for portables, as that's where they originally came from (I guess being the only original part of the machine), or are such motors in such plentiful supply that there's no sense in that?
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Old 26th Feb 2012, 3:54 pm   #10
Darren-UK
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Default Re: Is this a real vintage HMV Gramophone?

HMV portables are in plentiful supply, both in good condition and in ex chicken shed condition and that's just in the UK. Don't forget that thousands more of these found their way to far-flung corners of what was at one time the British Empire.

The people who make these 'repro' horned gramophones are interested only in profit, so the preservation of portable machines will be the last thing on their minds.
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Old 26th Feb 2012, 6:57 pm   #11
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Default Re: Is this a real vintage HMV Gramophone?

Several people who know have commented that the sound boxes on these are so poorly made that they will damage records too.
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Old 2nd Mar 2012, 6:36 pm   #12
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Default Re: Is this a real vintage HMV Gramophone?

The more recent machines coming in from India have reproduction Garrard 20 or 30 single spring motors, of very questionable merit!

Along with the previous comment about the state of the soundbox they are best considered for ornamental purposes only. I would prefer a good attache case portable with its original motor
and soundbox, to a load of rubbish.

Ironically in the 1980's a firm in Liverpool started the fashion with a decent soundbox, marked "His Master's Voice" which it was not and a very nice brass horn. At that time Thorens had started making clockwork motors again, due to the death of vinyl and their modern turntable sales and these were fitted as standard, with fibre and thereby silent running motors. Still seen for sale from time to time, they at least play a record properly even if they are not original.

Some of the most outlandish horn repro gramophones originate in the Plaza Doraga in Buenos Aires, Argentina. Fitted with huge and outlandish felt horns in every colour of the rainbow, they
even claim to be made by the Victor Talking Machine Company. Suffice to say that they are actually made in a workshop in the city and are sold every Sunday in the square! Just as well they
are too big for your average Boeing 747, or we would suffer a dearth of those as well.

Happy listening and keep a pair of socks handy just in case you come upon one!

David.
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Old 3rd Mar 2012, 7:02 am   #13
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Default Re: Is this a real vintage HMV Gramophone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom View Post
Several people who know have commented that the sound boxes on these are so poorly made that they will damage records too.
They will! A real sound box is a finely honed piece of kit which is designed to be very complient so that the steel needle can trace the wiggles of the groove with the minimum of resistance. This piece of flung-together-rubbish should never be used to play 78's of any value (either money or sentimental) - it will rapidly wear them out.

The sound they produce is very poor and nothing like the sound of a real vintage machine. Only fit for the scrap heap in my opinion.

I would bin it and chalk it up to experience and buy something decent like an HMV 101 which can sound really superb for their size.
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