Buying New Vinyl Albums

[Valvepower]

Great stuff, you have got the Zeppelin album… I'm in a better place after hearing some Zeppelin

Alright going at a massive tangent here, but does anyone else remember the Dancing Video when Led Zeppelin, Trampled Underfoot was played on the Old Grey Whistle Test back in 1975?

I found this on YouTube...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PI1k7kc6NMU

This is engrained in my mind, as do a lot of the OGWT performances and shows of the 70's.

Personally, the Zeppelin rhythm section of John Paul Jones and John Bonham powers along like a steam engine!

Terry

[fetteler]

Originally Posted by Valvepower

Alright going at a massive tangent here, but does anyone else remember the Dancing Video when Led Zeppelin, Trampled Underfoot was played on the Old Grey Whistle Test back in 1975?
Terry

Yep, remember it well, I can see the scene now as we sat on the floor in front of the telly next to a tray with a classic (everyone had 'em) aluminium teapot on it.

The OGWT used to set stuff to old 1930's animations too, always thought it was great when they did stuff like that.

Steve.

[Richardgr]

Happy days ... magic fridays ...
Watch The Tube, then Oxford Road Show, then OGWT

[Richard_FM]

Originally Posted by fetteler

The OGWT used to set stuff to old 1930's animations too, always thought it was great when they did stuff like that.

Steve.

Queen's first appearance on TV was like that, with Keep Yourself Alive played on OGWT to some old animation & live action film stock.

Pop Quiz also used this a fair bit.

[MurphyNut]

Very interesting debate, having got back into vinyl about 3 years ago it's been most enjoyable visiting charity shops and the numerous privately owned LP shops that have cropped up everywhere. I've built up a collection of original pressings from the 1950's -1970's and all quite cheap. I've seen these new LP pressings but not really been drawn to them as the music is modern and very expensive.
I doubt there's a market for my kind of music on new pressings when the originals are still so easily available at attractive prices. Does anyone still listen to Engelbert Humperdinck, Matt Monro or Kiki Dee?

[Paul_RK]

Originally Posted by MurphyNut

Does anyone still listen to Engelbert Humperdinck, Matt Monro or Kiki Dee?

Probably

I wonder if anyone who does might rejoice in a shop in Fakenham which exists mainly to auction things for people - it's not an auction room, but it holds online auctions, apparently puts items through eBay too, and may take some things to physical auction rooms elsewhere - but lately it's been offering LPs on a lucky dip basis, £1 for a brown paper package of ten in a genre chosen from a short list, among which "easy listening" certainly figures.

Paul

[Uncle Bulgaria]

Originally Posted by MurphyNut

I've seen these new LP pressings but not really been drawn to them as the music is modern and very expensive.

There's a lot of variety. Anna Meredith's version of Vivaldi's 'Four Seasons' was £13 for a double LP. I've just bought Dale Cornish's new LP, and it was £22 for one of 300 limited edition pressings. In the same order I got Public Service Broadcasting's 'Race for Space', which was £20 including a download and sizeable liner note booklet. I doubt that proportionately that's very different from getting some new, good quality releases in the '70s, is it?

[ccimoe1]

Hi,

I'm sure most on this feed know about 33 vs 45, My daughter in-law purchased a new album, and said there was something wrong with a vintage TT I had given them, because it was playing slow. The LP is a 33 and it was playing very slow, but all the other albums were fine. Long story short, I had no idea 12" LP's were pressed in 45 speed and have been for sometime I guess. I just never had a reason in my life time to play anything other then a 33,12" are a 45,7". Always fun learning something new!

[Richardgr]

Originally Posted by Uncle Bulgaria

... I doubt that proportionately that's very different from getting some new, good quality releases in the '70s, is it?

No, I don't think so. I can remember when The Wall came out it was around £4.99 for an LP and exactly twice for a double LP. So £13 is a steal!

[Nickthedentist]

Originally Posted by ccimoe1

Hi,

I'm sure most on this feed know about 33 vs 45, My daughter in-law purchased a new album, and said there was something wrong with a vintage TT I had given them, because it was playing slow. The LP is a 33 and it was playing very slow, but all the other albums were fine. Long story short, I had no idea 12" LP's were pressed in 45 speed and have been for sometime I guess. I just never had a reason in my life time to play anything other then a 33,12" are a 45,7". Always fun learning something new!

It's unusual for an LP to be cut at 45 rpm. I have a Deutsche Gramophon one from the 1980s, done so in an attempt to increase fidelity (though cynically, probably just as a marketing gimmick).

However, there are plenty of 12" singles which need to be played at 45 rpm.

On the other hand 7" EPs play at 33.3 rpm, and there are also 12" singles which play at 33.3 rpm too.

I've yet to encounter a 10" pressing that is meant to be played at 45 rpm, but I bet they exist.

But yes, 33.3 rpm for 12" and 45 rpm for 7" is right most of the time

[Paul_RK]

Originally Posted by ccimoe1

I had no idea 12" LP's were pressed in 45 speed and have been for sometime I guess.

Takes me back to 1979, when a group of us in our college would often gather after dinner for coffee in the room of one of our number, and sometimes give a hearing to any new music that any of us had acquired. There were more cassette players than turntables by this time, but I had my trusty Hacker Cavalier with me and I think it was in my room that we repaired when one of us had with him the Human League's newly released The Dignity of Labour. I was more into Van der Graaf myself, still am for that matter, there was even one chap who liked Abba, but we all sat contentedly through most of what came along (short of Abba anyway...), so the League went on the turntable and we listened patiently to the first side before someone realised it should have been spinning at 45, not 33.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yfh8zsF5308

Back to the start, then, but I seem to remember one or two voices arguing for the superiority of the extended version.

Paul

[Paul_RK]

Originally Posted by Nickthedentist

I've yet to encounter a 10" pressing that is meant to be played at 45 rpm, but I bet they exist.

I've a copy of one lurking somewhere: Cindytalk's Silver Shoals of Light, not just 10" and 45 rpm but single-sided to boot.

[Edward Huggins]

Noting Post#90, all the EPs produced in the 1950s and 1960s were 45rpm. Only in more recent time have there been EPs at 33rpm. As for 10" 45 rpm records - yes many have been released.

[Paul_RK]

Originally Posted by Edward Huggins

Noting Post#90, all the EPs produced in the 1950s and 1960s were 45rpm. Only in more recent time have there been EPs at 33rpm.

That's probably true of the major labels. I just looked through a little pile of early mainly classical EPs that came my way I can't remember how, and of the ten discs nine were 45 rpm, on HMV, Decca, Philips and Argo. The tenth, from the Musical Masterpiece Society, plays at 33 and apparently dates from 1961 -

https://www.discogs.com/release/8798...ano-In-C-Major

Paul

[Richard_FM]

I remember seeing a copy of OMD's singles that was a 10" playing at 45 RPM.

[Martin Bush]

I have a Peter Gabriel LP pressed to play at 45rpm, which means the album is four sides. I found it annoying having to change sides so often, so I bought the old one-disc 33rpm pressing too!

[nickdoofah]

Suzanne Vega released a 10" EP in 1985! It had Luka & Marlena On The Wall on it plus 2 other tracks! Great dynamics played on my Panasonic SG-2080 Through B & W speakers! Many many 12" Dance Italo & Hi Energy had terrific sound quality due to the grooves being deeper & wider apparently! Whatever the reason, those 45 rpm 12"s sounded incredible in the mid 1980's before the standards slipped at the end of the decade! I remember A-Ha's Take On Me 12" extended vinyl....Powerful dynamic sound that really showed how good records were.....I love records & cassettes always will do

[Valvepower]

Hello,

I did ask a cutting and mastering friend the loudest cut he’d encountered, and from memory it was a 12" single cut at 45RPM – I’d have to delve into the musty archives to remember the artiste and title though.

The B&K QR 2009 sweep tone record was cut 45RPM.

I cut quite a few test tones at both 33 and 45RPM, and the tones cut at 45 may have been better – however this was about 8 years ago and ‘ole memory maybe leading me a merry dance here, and like last time, I could well have my knickers in a twist though

As pointed out in post #96, a ‘single’ LP cut at 45RPM then becomes a double album!

Ah, Caroline is just playing Bachman Turner Overdrive, Roll on Down the Highway – that’s a pukka drop of 1970’s Dad Rock, alright

Terry

[Richard_FM]

I heard Neanderthal Man by Hotlegs damaged a cutting head when it was being mastered as a clang sound on the track was too much for it!

Supposedly it was made by Kevin Godley hitting a sheet of steel with a hammer before it was used to fireproof a door a Strawberry Studios!

[knobtwiddler]

Cutter-heads are typically fused, and it's common to hear of them being blown when cutting Dance 12"s at 45rpm. The late Nilz at London's Exchange was widely regarded as having cut 12"s at the absolute limit. Here is one of the Exchange's famously loud cuts: https://www.discogs.com/release/2134...rke-Red-1-Of-3

Note how short each side is... Legend has it that they blew several fuses during the test cuts. Many cutting engineers will refuse to cut that loud, as the coil in the head can overheat and it costs serious money to rebuild the head. I have many of Nilz's cuts and they are cut right to the limit where distortion creeps in. For the club, this actually makes them jump out, as the human ear has its own loudness curve at high SPL, along with the club's smiley-face EQ.

When I worked for record labels, we'd try to use Nilz for the loudest club cuts, and (sadly, also now late) John Dent when we needed something loud-ish but with a cleaner sound.

Personally, I tend to hunt down songs that are on sides cut below 20 minutes. If I can find a 12" / 45rpm cut of a track I like I'll opt for that over the LP. Taking Peter Gabriel as an example, knowing that he owns one of the world's most respected recording studios and is an audio nerd, I'd take the 2 x 12" cut any day. All things being equal, a 12" with 2 cuts per side should absolutely blow a 20-min LP out of the water in terms of signal-to-noise and depth of bass. Obviously, a badly prepared stamper or over-compressed mastering job will obviate this advantage!

Here are a couple of links to explain the compromise between side length and fidelity:

https://www.cyclonemusic.co.uk/vinyl...unding-record/

https://www.izotope.com/en/learn/mas...engineers.html

A key piece of knowledge is the appreciation of the fact that the cutter-head is capable of making modulations in the groove that no typical cart / arm will be able to follow. When I first attended a cut I was gobsmacked to see a £20 Stanton cart fitted to the test deck (not an expensive audiophile cart). It was soon explained to me that most people do not own high-compliance carts with boron cantilevers, so every cut had to be track-able via the most basic cart.