Buying New Vinyl Albums

[joebog1]

I dont buy new vinyl !!!! Period. I have a friend locally that does buy new vinyl and some of it is truly woeful. Then again, he does buy some new LP's that are excellent, BUT, his taste in music is far distant to mine. He recently bought a rerelease of some German synth stuff ( forgot the name ) and if that was a synthesiser Ill eat my hat, or even both of them. It sounded like a unijunction running free range with switched resistors for the notes. Distorted, screetchy, background noise etc etc, and he paid $250 !!!! for it. It was the one missing in his collection of that band.
I would bet it was from a very nasty rip.

I go to a few second hand shops and choose there, although its getting harder as the vinyl re trip takes off.

Its interesting your old vinyl was chopped up and repressed!!. I quite often got a call from EMI that would be selling off demo discs, and radio station releases that are branded "Not for Retail Sale ". and I would put money on it that they were some of the first off the master. I picked up a lot of weird labels that way too, like some death thrash metal ( which I dont like ) but the label is very uncommon and the record numbers are xyz 0001B. They are all 180 gram and sound superb, if ten fuzz boxes in a chain can be said to sound good. Ohh dont forget the guy screaming his guts out, or the bass player that has his amp at 13.

I will stick by 2nd hand if I can hand pick it myself.

I have mentioned, I only have data on CD's and no CD player.

Joe

[CambridgeWorks]

My last vinyl purchase was in early 1980s maybe? My first was most likely in 1965, a Sandie Shaw LP, 32/6. Nearly half a week take home pay!! 32/6 = £1.62. Gross pay was £3.75, less tax and insurance 0.45 for a 45 hour week.

[ajgriff]

Originally Posted by joebog1

I go to a few second hand shops and choose there, although its getting harder as the vinyl re trip takes off.

That's exactly my problem Joe as it's becoming more & more difficult to find used examples locally of some of the specific albums I'd like to buy and I'm reluctant to buy used copies on-line that I can't inspect before purchase.

Alan

[joebog1]

I have tried buying British LP's from record stores online, and the postage is simply not worth the effort.

I see LOTS of LP's I seriously desire, but at the last page it wants 22 quid for a 4 quid LP.
Like I always say, I'm old, NOT stupid.

New Zealand has some superb 2nd hand record shops, and they made some decent pressings in their time too. Again, postage has gone through the roof.
When the US Library of Congress got rid of its vinyl collection, I bought many of my LP's from there, and for like $3 US each. Postage was payable in those days, I didn't need mortgage the Perth Mint, like I do today. ( Perth, in Western Australia is where all precious metals are dealt in Au )


Joe

[hamid_1]

A few weeks ago I saw an episode of "How Do They Do It?" on the Quest TV channel which showed the manufacture of vinyl records. I think it was somewhere in Eastern Europe (Czech Republic?). The first step was indeed to take old scratched / undesireable records, cut out the centre with the paper label on and grind up the rest to make new records out of. I understand that vinyl is made from oil which is expensive, so this saves money and benefits the environment too, but it doesn't exactly fill me with confidence about the quality of the end product.

I can only think of one *new* vinyl record I've bought in the last few years: https://www.discogs.com/release/1109...f-Stereo-Sound

Though I've bought quite a few used records. However I prefer to seek out CD copies where practical. Minor scratches don't affect CD playback, and CDs can be quickly transferred to MP3 for portable listening. In the past, vinyl records were cheap junk and CDs were expensive, now it's the other way round.

Some countries still have relatively cheap postage. Unfortunately postage costs in the UK have increased a lot over the last decade. Royal Mail now takes size as well as weight into account. This makes posting a 12" record more expensive than a smaller item of the same weight. Quite often the postage is more expensive than the actual record. Consequently I tend to buy used vinyl from local charity shops or flea markets. You can inspect the records before purchase, but there are usually no refunds from those places. Buying online normally gives some right of return / cancellation or refund if something turns out wrong, though it can still be a hassle to get your money back.

[knobtwiddler]

As a rule, if you're buying material that was originally released in yesteryear, then the original pressing (assuming it's not beaten up) will sound better. The reasons for this aren't pressing / stamper preparation-related (although - on the whole - these aspects tended to be slightly better in the heyday of vinyl), but mastering. Is the re-release coming off original tapes? 40 or 50 years down the line, it's rare for the original masters to be available. It's a fact that even major artists have seen vinyl reissues cut from CD (or worse...). I know people who work at major labels and can tell you for a fact that, a lot of the time, no one knows how to get a original tape... A lot of reissue labels operating today are taking the masters off original vinyl, and de-clicking it using software. Grim, but true.

Secondly, releases from yesteryear didn't have the penchant for squashing everything to within an inch of its life via a dynamic compressor / limiter. Even when original masters are available, the modern release can have its dynamics squashed during mastering by default. This has been a fact of modern releases for over a couple of decades now. Compared to the originals, a lot of modern remasters sound as if they've been through a broadcast limiter (and weirdly enough, there are stories of mastering engineers employing the Optimod for this...). Louder is seen as being more commercial, and the mindset is ingrained within the industry.

Modern pressings can be fantastically quiet and flat. I have examples bought this year. 70s releases on major labels can have terrible surface noise. Sadly, the opposite is more often the case.

NB - 180G vinyl is flatter. That's its only advantage. Their is no groove geometry advantage to thicker vinyl. But you all knew that I'm sure.

[knobtwiddler]

Originally Posted by Radio Wrangler

I heard that not only were unsold vinyl records taken back and chopped/melted for re-pressing, they didn't bother to take the paper labels off first. I've been shown photomicrographs of record surfaces with fibres sticking out and it was suggested that this was the major cause of swoosh-swoosh background noises.

David

You heard correctly. It's a fact. I have some of these records. You can even see the fibres with the naked eye! These are definite examples of where the reissue is better!

[Richardgr]

Vinyl is best when the original recording was mastered for it, i.e. analogue. It is close to an artform to get the slower moving grooves at the centre of the record to manage the dynamics of the music in the same way as those on the outer part of the record. In fact much music was recorded in such a way that it was optimised for the two sides of a flat disc.
Then the stampers that are used to press the vinyl have to be made in limited quantities from a master, and used for a limited number of pressings (and this is always a lot less with classical recordings).
The stampers themselves are coated with a release agent so the new disc is released, and I have noticed that a lot of new vinyl seems to still have release agent on it - maybe a different formulation or process?
And then finally they use a great big cake of vinyl, call it a '180g' pressing, and that is meant to imbue the record with some special properties. The best pressings I have ever heard are some Deutsche Gramophone classical pressings I have on a very flat, thin vinyl with a square edge, and they are completely noise free on the quiet patches. That implies that static could be a property of the way the LP is manufactured?

Regarding the coloured vinyl pressings, it was mostly singles that used recycled vinyl. I have one single with the bit of an old label in the groove area. I had heard that black vinyl contains carbon which is meant to make it harder than coloured vinyl? Not sure about that. The main thing with LPs is the number of pressings from the stamper IMO. Would be nice to see reissues which guaranteed the number of pressings.

Perhaps we should also take our hats of the vinyl mastering engineer? Often to be discovered by looking at the etching on the runout of the LP or single.
secret-history-messages-etched-runout-groove/

I typed this before reading Knobtwiddlers contribution above, so similar points.

[Craig Sawyers]

Originally Posted by Radio Wrangler

I heard that not only were unsold vinyl records taken back and chopped/melted for re-pressing, they didn't bother to take the paper labels off first. I've been shown photomicrographs of record surfaces with fibres sticking out and it was suggested that this was the major cause of swoosh-swoosh background noises.

David

Yes that is true. Not only that but bits of metal from the choppers found its way in. So records came with pre-crackle. Taking it back for replacement turned into a farce with crackles elsewhere on the record.

And they became much thinner. Even after the oil crisis was long past, record companies kept the records thin, because it was cheaper to do so.

Back to the OP's question: I've bought lots of estate sale records, and maybe 50 or so new pressings. The new ones have been superb quality. The only slight proviso is that in one or two the hole is not punched perfectly centrally, so on long notes you can hear a slight change in frequency as the record rotates.

But that was the case back in the day too.

I wish I could find the link to a gizmo that overcomes that problem. It comes with a template to drill an oversize hole, then sits over the spindle. It looks at the innermost music track optically, and adjusts the disc centering until that track is running in a circular path. Naturally it has a digital readout. IIRC it was several thousand quid

Craig

[Craig Sawyers]

Found it. It is made by DS Audio, who manufacture pick up cartridges that operate on optics, rather than magnets https://ds-audio-w.biz/products/ , are clearly innovative, and are well thought of at the hairy high price end of the hobby.

But they also do a few accessories, one of which is this https://ds-audio-w.biz/products/563/ .

The typical price for this is £5,500 https://www.mcru.co.uk/product/ds-au...v=79cba1185463 .

That is 183, £30 record's worth.

Craig

[Craig Sawyers]

While I'm in boring everyone mode, I clean records, mostly estate sale ones. And after cleaning I use Mobile Fidelity Original Master Sleeves. These are about 70p each. You buy a pack of 50, which keeps me going for quite a while.

Why these? Well the Library of Congress archive center uses them. And that was good enough recommendation for me. I've tried their alternative of Nagaoka sleeves, but these are really thin and flimsy. The MoFi ones are truly superb

https://www.loc.gov/preservation/care/record.html

Spec is here. USD20 where they are made, and £30 or thereabouts on this side of the pond.

Craig

[wireless_john]

Originally Posted by Lloyd 1985

I was quite shocked when I looked up a record I bought in 2006, it’s AFI’s Sing the sorrow on double translucent red vinyl, originally released in 2003, I got mine for 20 quid, and I thought that was expensive for a record, now they seem to fetch daft prices, anything from £250 to £1700! The cheapest one on eBay currently is £700… if I’d known they’d be fetching that amount back then I’d have kept it wrapped up!

Regards
Lloyd

I was looking around a vinyl shop in Dorchester a few months ago and saw John Mayalls Bluesbreakers 'Beano' album for £175!!

I bought the same LP in 1967 and it's still in good condition so I've put a note in it now so it doesn't get thrown away when I'm gone!!!

John

[Craig Sawyers]

It seems to be down to the pressing number. A bit like Sgt Pepper - an original stamper pressing is stoopidly expensive. Later pressings are as cheap as chips.

Same with Bluesbreakers Beano. First pressing a couple of hundred, later pressings £30.

Craig

[stevehertz]

Originally Posted by Craig Sawyers

It seems to be down to the pressing number. A bit like Sgt Pepper - an original stamper pressing is stoopidly expensive. Later pressings are as cheap as chips.

Same with Bluesbreakers Beano. First pressing a couple of hundred, later pressings £30.

Craig

I have the original Sgt Pepper album, how do I recognise an original stamper? Because I recently bought the Abbey Road half speed remastered version and it's obviously better, might be able to let my original one go!

[Ted Kendall]

Originally Posted by Craig Sawyers

I wish I could find the link to a gizmo that overcomes that problem

Nakamichi made a couple of turntables which used a servo and sliding plate to do the centring automatically. When transferring 78s, which do not take kindly to being hacked about, I use a Revox turntable with the platter jacked up to use the tapered part of the centre spindle. A little gentle tapping at the edge of the disc brings it into line quite quickly. Roksan used an undersized centre spindle, with a cap to bring it to normal size for routine use.

[PaulR]

I have bought quite a few new LPs and have found that the majority are fine. I have one Ella Fitzgerald one that has too much sibilance but otherwise I have had few problems. I have returned two which had scratches on them and they were replaced. One from Amazon and one from HMV. I was "amused" when the HMV assistant got the returned record out of the case by holding the outer edge between his thumb and forefinger.

My son buys more LPs that I do and he is always wary of Amazon purchases because he has had some warped ones from them suggesting that they have been badly stored.

This may be obvious but if you buy picture discs then expect surface noise. I have a couple of Christmas ones that I bought anticipating this but I like the pictures going round as a novelty.

As already pointed out I think it is a good idea to use the "crinkly" inner sleeves instead of the paper ones usually supplied. Replace polythene ones as well as something in the polythene leeches out onto the record over the years.

PS - Talking of re-issues I once read that Bing Crosby had to record White Christmas for a second time as the original masters wore out due to demand for the record. I don't know how true that is,

[knobtwiddler]

Originally Posted by PaulR

I have bought quite a few new LPs and have found that the majority are fine.

A common irony I see is when your original pressing has a lot of wear, so high clicks and pops, but if you can get past the noise it has great clarity and dynamics. You then buy the re-issue, only to find that the vinyl is pristine and devoid of noise, but the mastering itself sounds as if it's been taken off saturated cassette and the meters are pegged due to the amount of dynamic limiting. It's an all-too-common problem!

[knobtwiddler]

NB - The Nakamichi TX-1000 was relatively affordable a few years back. If one comes onto the market now, they seem to be asking similar amounts to a luxury car. You could probably buy 2 or 3 EMTs for what I've seen people asking for them.

[Aub]

I'm not getting in to all that again. Got rid of vinyl decades ago. Don't have the space anymore.

Cheers

Aub

[PaulR]

Originally Posted by Craig Sawyers

The only slight proviso is that in one or two the hole is not punched perfectly centrally, so on long notes you can hear a slight change in frequency as the record rotates. Craig

Thinking about it, I have found that the hole on some new records is slightly too small for my Lenco GL75. I think it is a combination of the hole being fractionally small and the spindle being fractionally larger than standard.