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Vintage Audio (record players, hi-fi etc) Amplifiers, speakers, gramophones and other audio equipment. |
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1st May 2022, 2:18 pm | #1 |
Pentode
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Munich, Germany
Posts: 123
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My HMV 109
As I wrote on another tread I found a HMV 109 gramophone, exactly the kind I was looking for.
So yesterday I fired up the Astra and drove from the shores of the Ammersee to Traunstein to pick the thing up. It was advertised on Ebay Kleinanzeigen for 99 Euros and the pictures did it justice, I have just recently picked up my mothers stuff from the UK including her Schellack records, so I thought: "Why not?" The cabinet is so-lala, not too bad, not too good, some TLC and it should be alright again. But! The handle spins in the ratchet but it does not engage the spring, everything else works fine. So stupid me, instead of haggling down I paid the asking price. Kicking myself right at this moment. But it is neither here or there, this thing must run. So let me take you on this little journey to get a HMV 109 happily spinning again. Last edited by Slammer; 1st May 2022 at 2:27 pm. |
1st May 2022, 2:26 pm | #2 |
Pentode
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Munich, Germany
Posts: 123
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Re: My HMV 109
I have taken the mechanical gubbins out and now I know that 100 year old grease can turn into window putty. Dredged around 40 needles and bits of Bamboo(?) out of the grunge.
I sent out a few mails and found a gramophone workshop very near me in Munich, the prices are reasonable and I will take the mechanics there tomorrow. I would like to do this myself, but in my Micro-Flat without tools... not a chance. https://grammophonwerkstatt.de/ Aaand this is what I am working with. |
1st May 2022, 2:28 pm | #3 |
Pentode
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Munich, Germany
Posts: 123
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Re: My HMV 109
Now my flat reeks of cleaning petrol and I am off to the Biergarten for a Maß or two.
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2nd May 2022, 4:48 pm | #4 |
Pentode
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Munich, Germany
Posts: 123
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Re: My HMV 109
Took the motor to the Gramaphone shop, was invited in and felt like Carter opening King Tut´s tomb.
Quote: "I see wonderful things!" It was down in the cellar and to call it "cluttered" is like calling a lawn full of grass. There was only a narrow rat run to a workbench and if the cellar had walls then they were far away and full of gramophones of all shapes and sizes, Radios that you have to call "Wirelesses" including one or two Göbbels Schnauzen, Göbbels gob Volksempfänger from the 40ties. Bakelite telephones, spare parts to make you weep and, and, and. Next time I´m there I´l see if I can get pictures. |
2nd May 2022, 7:07 pm | #5 |
Pentode
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Munich, Germany
Posts: 123
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Re: My HMV 109
We have wormsign...
Was watching Dune last night, love the movie, Starwars for intellectuals I hear it being called. Anyway. Seems that there have been a few worms in the wood, no new wormshit so I think that they have moved on or are now dead and the HMV is haunted by wormghosts. with closer inspection you can see that the back of the cabinet has warped out of it´s nut and feather joints and some ****** glued it back in with acidic glue. I´ll take it down to the local carpenter and see what he thinks. Dredged out another 40 needles, so I don´t need to fear running out of pointy bits. There was one oddity though, one needle did not look like a needle but more like a spear. Anybody know why? I think that my current question is: "How far am I going to go down this rabbit hole?" Apart from the 90 Euros for the Gramophone, now 30 to 40 Euros for the refurbishment of the motor and maybe another 50 for the cabinet. 200 Big ones all in all, if I am lucky BRRRR! But I get to fiddle with something new. I can hear y´all experts sighing from here, but remember, it´s my first Gramophone. By the way, the horn is painted dark brown, doesn´t seem to be standard paint, anybody know what it could be? |
2nd May 2022, 7:33 pm | #6 | |
Heptode
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Cornwall, UK.
Posts: 501
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Re: My HMV 109
Quote:
This looks like a good machine. Woodworm often confine their activity to the plywood in gramophones of this age as the plywood used fish glue. Good luck. |
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2nd May 2022, 7:43 pm | #7 | |
Dekatron
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Whittlesey, near Peterborough, Cambridgeshire, UK.
Posts: 3,758
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Re: My HMV 109
Quote:
Barry |
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2nd May 2022, 9:37 pm | #8 | ||
Pentode
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Munich, Germany
Posts: 123
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Re: My HMV 109
Quote:
He also told me to bring the soundbox round and have the rubber rings changed as they have probably never been replaced and will be hardened which gives a rough sound. |
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3rd May 2022, 10:30 am | #9 | |
Dekatron
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Leominster, Herefordshire, UK.
Posts: 16,527
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Re: My HMV 109
Quote:
What an evocative idea, but what sort of joint is it? I guess it's a literal translation of a technical name which can result in some strange results in the destination language. Dovetail, comb, something else again? https://www.craftsmanspace.com/woodworking-joints may be helpful?
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3rd May 2022, 7:48 pm | #10 | ||
Pentode
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Munich, Germany
Posts: 123
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Re: My HMV 109
Quote:
Which literaly translated into German is.... rather X-rated. Last edited by Slammer; 3rd May 2022 at 7:54 pm. |
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6th May 2022, 1:26 pm | #11 |
Pentode
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Munich, Germany
Posts: 123
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Re: My HMV 109
Took the box to a local carpenters and they are going to use clamps to try to pull the tongues back onto the grooves.
Should be ready tomorrow. Last edited by Cobaltblue; 6th May 2022 at 1:59 pm. Reason: Immature comment removed |
6th May 2022, 5:29 pm | #12 | |
Dekatron
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Leominster, Herefordshire, UK.
Posts: 16,527
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Re: My HMV 109
Quote:
Tongue and groove seems odd for a cabinet joint- it's normally used for flooring planks or wall cladding where the long sides of the plank have a groove on one side and a corresponding tongue on the other. A box or comb joint or its fancier relative the dovetail is more common.
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7th May 2022, 11:33 am | #13 |
Pentode
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Munich, Germany
Posts: 123
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Re: My HMV 109
Riight, picked up the cabinet from the carpenters and have to admit he did a good job, got the old glue out, reglued the joints and clamped them.
Cost 45 Euros. Why, I hear you asking, did he not do it himself, it´s not rocket science? Don´t have clamps... Arrived back in Germany after a 20 year hiatus with nothing more than two suitcases and a backpack. Clamps cost 28 Euros a pop for the size I would need and then there is glue to buy at 6 Euros. Not that I am on too tight a budget but all the same, and then there is not a lot of space in my one room pokey hole under the roof. So for the sake of a few bucks I get it done professionally. Having said that, just done some calculations. The "gram" cost me 80 Euros, cabinet; 45, the motor refurbishment another 40. Then yesterday I went out and bought. Brushes, two, sandpaper 280grain, felt, green. Shellack and a small tin of black paint. Another 48 Euros. Already over 200 Euros. Makes you wonder if paying more for a gram in better condition would have been the better option. |
7th May 2022, 12:09 pm | #14 | ||
Pentode
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Munich, Germany
Posts: 123
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Re: My HMV 109
Quote:
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8th May 2022, 10:01 am | #15 |
Pentode
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Munich, Germany
Posts: 123
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Re: My HMV 109
Washed the cabinet with dishsoap, dried it and gave a first coat of Ferdinand Freres shellack sanding sealer and let it dry, buffed the wood with 280grain sandpaper then applied a coat of OBI Shellack.
I did not believe it would come this nice but it looks great. I also did not believe that shellack fumes would smell like Grappa, at least to me, or that they would have such a kick. Time to fire up the motorbike and clear my head. |
8th May 2022, 10:21 am | #16 | |
Dekatron
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Oxford, UK.
Posts: 17,820
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Re: My HMV 109
Quote:
However: If you enjoy the repair and restoration process, then it's money well spent. Similarly, you will get a sense of great satisfaction every time you see or use the item, which you wouldn't necessarily have had if you'd just bought it. Thirdly, if the item ever goes wrong, you will be in a far better position to know what's wrong and rectify it than if you'd just bought a plug-and-play, pre-restored item. Things also get cheaper if you intend to repair other items later, for example, the paint and shellac polish you bought will probably be enough to renovate multiple cabinets, and buying electronic components in bulk is always cheaper than just grabbing what you need for a solitary restoration (though I appreciate that storage space is an issue for you). And obviously, doing this kind of thing to make a profit is very hard indeed; many people end up selling their treasures for less than their total outlay when they get bored or run out of space. Last edited by Nickthedentist; 8th May 2022 at 10:29 am. |
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8th May 2022, 10:23 am | #17 | |||
Dekatron
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Oxford, UK.
Posts: 17,820
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Re: My HMV 109
Quote:
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8th May 2022, 10:37 am | #18 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Leominster, Herefordshire, UK.
Posts: 16,527
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Re: My HMV 109
Ah, that joint took a bit of finding the actual name. It's a splined mitre joint. Stronger than a simple mitre with similar clean outside appearance.
https://www.woodcraft.com/blog_entries/splined-miter (miter is US spelling) A picture paints a thousand words! Thanks for your patience.
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8th May 2022, 4:38 pm | #19 | ||
Pentode
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Munich, Germany
Posts: 123
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Re: My HMV 109
Quote:
I am very much enjoying this restauration and fear that this maybe the start of something interesting. |
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8th May 2022, 10:22 pm | #20 | |
Dekatron
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Lincolnshire, UK.
Posts: 4,985
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Re: My HMV 109
Quote:
You don't necessarily need sash clamps when gluing cabinet joints back together, you just need a corridor or even a suitable door frame in your house. Years ago when I didn't have any large clamps I actually glued a gramophone cabinet back together using blocks of wood and wedges between two walls in the house - a corridor or hallway of the right width is ideal. Sometimes an old car scissor jack can be useful, but make sure that what you're jacking against is strong enough to take it. You've got to get the old brain into action and start "thinking outside the box" as the old saying goes, or as another old saying goes "where there's a will there's a way"! Below is a link to an old thread of mine that you might want to skim through, where I repaired a gramophone in probably worse condition than yours. The two larger sash clamps that you see in one of the pictures cost a couple of quid from a boot sale. They're both missing the foot, but you can soon get round that with small blocks etc. One of the two springs in the motor barrel was broken, so I repaired it. I prefer to try to repair the original spring, as I don't particularly rate the new replacements these days. I could be wrong about new springs, but all the failures you tend to hear about seem to be replacement springs failing again. https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...d.php?t=149161 |
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