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Vintage Audio (record players, hi-fi etc) Amplifiers, speakers, gramophones and other audio equipment. |
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8th Oct 2022, 6:18 pm | #21 | |
Dekatron
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Re: The first CD players.
Quote:
Incidentally, when Sony launched DAT a few years later, they were determined to make the best machine they could to ensure the format's success. So the DTC1000 had Philips 16 bit oversampling D-A convertors! |
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8th Oct 2022, 6:45 pm | #22 | |
Heptode
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Re: The first CD players.
Quote:
I once owned a Philips CD202 and discovered the TDA1540D converters (and a large chunk of support circuitry) had been replaced by a CX20017 together with clock signals generated by PLL. All this had been clumsily crammed into a screened box. Guess they ran into supply issues and wanted to maintain production. Philips CD104 is the player of choice. Rich
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10th Oct 2022, 1:03 pm | #23 | |
Heptode
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Re: The first CD players.
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The CD-100, by contrast, is a very nice player. |
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10th Oct 2022, 1:13 pm | #24 | ||
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Re: The first CD players.
Quote:
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10th Oct 2022, 1:38 pm | #25 |
Octode
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Re: The first CD players.
The CD104 used double sided print on most boards, and rather than using plated through holes to give continuity between tracks on opposite board faces, Philips used crude rivets which they called "griplets". Of course, these were a major source of trouble as they were not always fully soldered and were mostly used to connect together earth planes.
Luckily the griplets were hollow, so a wire link through it, soldered to the track on each side was a straightforward fix. Finding them all was far less straightforward.... Other CD104 problems are poor power supply regulator heatsinking, poor joints on the regulators due to thermal stress (fit wire links) and a bad "tray in" switch design - fixable with a better microswitch fitted elsewhere on the tray mechanism. Loading belts need to be good and tight. Otherwise, a very good player. I have a pristine specimen. Leon. |
10th Oct 2022, 1:41 pm | #26 |
Heptode
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Re: The first CD players.
I owned this Marantz CD 63 for many years before it found a new home back in the Netherlands.
It worked very well and luckily in my ownership did not require any work, although having been left idle for some years it required some coaxing for the disc to spin up, but once it did so, gave no further trouble. Alan |
10th Oct 2022, 2:23 pm | #27 |
Dekatron
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Re: The first CD players.
I had a CD104 a whlie ago. The great advantage was that it would play damaged discs that many other machines turned thier noses up at. It read the TOC quicker than any other machine I know - and sounded prettty good too!
I now have a CD63SE - the 1994 version which works well. |
10th Oct 2022, 3:36 pm | #28 |
Dekatron
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Re: The first CD players.
There's an excellent article from the early 1990s(?) in Television magazine, about servicing the CD104. Probably available on the American Radio History website. Probably by Mike Leach.
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10th Oct 2022, 7:58 pm | #29 | |
Dekatron
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Re: The first CD players.
Quote:
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10th Oct 2022, 8:39 pm | #30 |
Nonode
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Re: The first CD players.
I used a non-oversampled (therefore 14-bit) 104 for a number of years. I wish I still had it - the replacement CD players have always failed to impress me. There are several ways to address the griplet issue and the power supply inadequacy, mine was so treated.
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10th Oct 2022, 8:46 pm | #31 |
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Re: The first CD players.
The CD104 did use early 14 bit DACs though, and while it certainly sounded good by the standards of the day, later designs are much better. Of course, sound quality perception is very subjective though.
My Marantz CD63 (1982) does produce some odd HF effects which aren't there with more modern designs, though overall it still sounds pleasant enough. |
12th Oct 2022, 5:42 pm | #32 |
Heptode
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Re: The first CD players.
Just to add my twopennth. My first CD player was the Ferguson CD01 which was a Sony clone of which I'm not sure! The only thing I ever found wrong was a slight fuzz/tizz on violin pieces.
The same disc on a later bitstream player was fine. As regards the Philip's CD104, fixed loads of them. The feed through links were sods to find but easy to solder. My violin solo CD sounded OK on these as well. I binned the Ferguson/Sony because of a worn spindle bearing. Stupid thing to do now I know. At the time players were cheap and early units were not saleable. One other thing it suffered was DC drift on the secondary power supply. The supplies went high or low and this upset the servo's. Anyone else had similar? Overall unless you're listening on good equipment and very closely, I still think you'd be pushed to hear much difference between an early eighties unit to a modern player. SJM
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It's never been right since we've had it... Last edited by samjmann; 12th Oct 2022 at 5:43 pm. Reason: Typo error |
12th Oct 2022, 5:52 pm | #33 |
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Re: The first CD players.
That tizzy top end with certain instrumental colours is very characteristic of early players - even the first and second generation Philips machines suffered from it. It sounds for all the world like a problem with the speaker tweeters. Better DACs got rid of it.
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13th Oct 2022, 9:43 am | #34 |
Dekatron
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Re: The first CD players.
I did not expect the thread (and the later, er, "spin-off" thread WRT to The Red Book) would produce such carefully considered and informative replies. Thank you to all. There is much to ponder here. I would agree that the "tininess" of those early models did invite a prejudice that stayed on for many years vis-a-vis vinyl. Given the later improvements in DAC design, it is surprising that there no was manufacturer who attempted to re-create a "vinyl-analogue" sound whilst retaining all the other virtues of the CD. This happened with some Solid-State Guitar Amplifier producers who tried to simulate a "valved sound".
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