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General Vintage Technology Discussions For general discussions about vintage radio and other vintage electronics etc. |
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5th Jun 2020, 10:45 pm | #61 |
Octode
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Bristol, UK.
Posts: 1,642
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Re: Remanufacturing unobtainable parts.
Thanks Emeritus, very useful summary. Judging by your quote from memory, copyright would not apply to circuit or layout diagrams, though it would apply to, eg, user and service manuals. Is that correct?
Mike |
6th Jun 2020, 12:03 am | #62 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Brentwood, Essex, UK.
Posts: 5,316
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Re: Remanufacturing unobtainable parts.
From memory, there was a reported case about 20 years ago in which it was held that a circuit diagram or a net list describing all the interconnections of a circuit, were literary works attracting copyright protection, as they were things that a person skilled in the art would "read". I remember agreeing with the decision, as, wearing my engineer's hat, a circuit diagram is a drawing that is not created to be looked at for its aesthetic properties, but is indeed intended to be read to obtain information.
I don't have an internet-connectable PC at present, and my phone screen is a bit small for reading comfortably, so I haven't checked the current state of the Copyright etc. Act1988, but in the old hard copy I have (2007 edition) , section 51 provides " It is not an infringement of any copyright in a design document .... for anything other than an artistic work or type face, to make an article to the design or to copy an article to the design. " . This implies that, while you can't copy a circuit diagram per se, you are free to build a circuit defined by the circuit diagram (as long as it is not patented, although patents cannot be enforced against private, non-commercial use) . You really need to consult a patent attorney for the current situation as I have not kept up with changes since retiring. Any decent firm will give you a half hour consultation for free, although in the present lockdown most are closed to the public, with people working from home. |
6th Jun 2020, 12:48 am | #63 |
Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Fife, Scotland, UK.
Posts: 22,800
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Re: Remanufacturing unobtainable parts.
The purpose behind governments making patenting possible is interesting.
Patents are to stop inventors sitting on the details of a secret invention forever more. They cause the critical details to be published relatively soon after the invention has been made. This allows other individuals and companies to study the invention and if they want to build and evaluate whatever the patent covers. This revs up competition. In return, the inventor gets a degree of protection which covers direct copying for a limited time period. The period is chosen as a balance between the amount of reward possible for the inventor versus the effect of slowing progress in the national economy. So it's a compromise, intended to produce the best net advantage to the country. New ideas get disseminated and built on, but inventors get rewarded for disseminating them. Copyright, I do not understand the reasoning behind the length of the protection. It seems to be entirely for the 'artist' with no representation of the public interest. I am intrigued by the extent to which some organisations are claiming copyright on, say, radio circuit diagrams reproduced on the internet. Compared to patents, copyright is a minefield. David
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Can't afford the volcanic island yet, but the plans for my monorail and the goons' uniforms are done Last edited by Radio Wrangler; 6th Jun 2020 at 12:53 am. |
6th Jun 2020, 12:49 am | #64 |
Tetrode
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Sydney, New South Wales, Australia.
Posts: 65
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Re: Remanufacturing unobtainable parts.
With the current available technology its not unthinkable that someone could
A) 3D Scan an entire objectt (vintage radio) B) 3D Print tge whole object in bulk C) Replicate the internals from diagrams and NOS tubes and parts D) Sell on item as an original I would like to think that I am smart enough to tell a bakelite cabinet from a 3D printed one in real life. But buying online from a photo may be tricky. Things like the very collectable Empire State radios could be knocked out quickly and they sell for around $2000 here on ebay. Even a wooden case can be accurately laser cut and built and be hard to identify as a fake. This is one of the things I fear now when purchasing things online and why I dont buy anything that says "RARE... COLLECTABLE" no matter how much I have always wanted said item. It is getting harder to spot the fakes and as 3D print technology gets better it will get harder. The only mistake I have made so far is purchasing "Genuine" HMV radio knobs. They were genuine resin cast off the original knobs but I knew straight away they were not a bakelite knob from the 1940s. Only a $4.70 mistake so no big deal and they looked the part. But it was a good wake up call for me that "GENUINE" is not always genuine nor is it rare. Photos may have even been real bakelite knobs but the product I received was not.
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If only he could have used his evil genius for niceness instead of evil. Max Smart 18 Sept 1965 |
6th Jun 2020, 9:26 am | #65 | ||
Dekatron
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Cottingham, East Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 5,737
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Re: Remanufacturing unobtainable parts.
Quote:
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David. BVWS Member. G-QRP Club member 1339. |
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7th Jun 2020, 10:09 am | #66 |
Nonode
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Redruth, Cornwall, UK.
Posts: 2,562
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Re: Remanufacturing unobtainable parts.
Hi.
In my Magnetic Loop Receiving Aerial (Gary Tempest), those 4-247s kindly supplied by StationX (originally from Radio Wrangler), out performed genuine RCA 2N5109s and some Motorola 2N5109s. Not sure the Motorola ones were genuine though, the performance was down compared to the other two. Regards, Symon |
7th Jun 2020, 10:54 am | #67 |
Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Fife, Scotland, UK.
Posts: 22,800
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Re: Remanufacturing unobtainable parts.
Just glad to see some of them getting used. They'd been heading for landfill until someone asked me if I could find a use for them.
David
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Can't afford the volcanic island yet, but the plans for my monorail and the goons' uniforms are done |