UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Powered By Google Custom Search Vintage Radio and TV Service Data

Go Back   UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum > General Vintage Technology > General Vintage Technology Discussions

Notices

General Vintage Technology Discussions For general discussions about vintage radio and other vintage electronics etc.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 5th Jun 2020, 10:45 pm   #61
Boulevardier
Octode
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Bristol, UK.
Posts: 1,642
Default Re: Remanufacturing unobtainable parts.

Thanks Emeritus, very useful summary. Judging by your quote from memory, copyright would not apply to circuit or layout diagrams, though it would apply to, eg, user and service manuals. Is that correct?

Mike
Boulevardier is online now  
Old 6th Jun 2020, 12:03 am   #62
emeritus
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Brentwood, Essex, UK.
Posts: 5,316
Default Re: Remanufacturing unobtainable parts.

From memory, there was a reported case about 20 years ago in which it was held that a circuit diagram or a net list describing all the interconnections of a circuit, were literary works attracting copyright protection, as they were things that a person skilled in the art would "read". I remember agreeing with the decision, as, wearing my engineer's hat, a circuit diagram is a drawing that is not created to be looked at for its aesthetic properties, but is indeed intended to be read to obtain information.

I don't have an internet-connectable PC at present, and my phone screen is a bit small for reading comfortably, so I haven't checked the current state of the Copyright etc. Act1988, but in the old hard copy I have (2007 edition) , section 51 provides " It is not an infringement of any copyright in a design document .... for anything other than an artistic work or type face, to make an article to the design or to copy an article to the design. " . This implies that, while you can't copy a circuit diagram per se, you are free to build a circuit defined by the circuit diagram (as long as it is not patented, although patents cannot be enforced against private, non-commercial use) .

You really need to consult a patent attorney for the current situation as I have not kept up with changes since retiring. Any decent firm will give you a half hour consultation for free, although in the present lockdown most are closed to the public, with people working from home.
emeritus is offline  
Old 6th Jun 2020, 12:48 am   #63
Radio Wrangler
Moderator
 
Radio Wrangler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Fife, Scotland, UK.
Posts: 22,800
Default Re: Remanufacturing unobtainable parts.

The purpose behind governments making patenting possible is interesting.

Patents are to stop inventors sitting on the details of a secret invention forever more. They cause the critical details to be published relatively soon after the invention has been made. This allows other individuals and companies to study the invention and if they want to build and evaluate whatever the patent covers. This revs up competition.

In return, the inventor gets a degree of protection which covers direct copying for a limited time period. The period is chosen as a balance between the amount of reward possible for the inventor versus the effect of slowing progress in the national economy.

So it's a compromise, intended to produce the best net advantage to the country. New ideas get disseminated and built on, but inventors get rewarded for disseminating them.

Copyright, I do not understand the reasoning behind the length of the protection. It seems to be entirely for the 'artist' with no representation of the public interest. I am intrigued by the extent to which some organisations are claiming copyright on, say, radio circuit diagrams reproduced on the internet. Compared to patents, copyright is a minefield.

David
__________________
Can't afford the volcanic island yet, but the plans for my monorail and the goons' uniforms are done

Last edited by Radio Wrangler; 6th Jun 2020 at 12:53 am.
Radio Wrangler is online now  
Old 6th Jun 2020, 12:49 am   #64
Mullard_Nut_74
Tetrode
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Sydney, New South Wales, Australia.
Posts: 65
Default Re: Remanufacturing unobtainable parts.

With the current available technology its not unthinkable that someone could
A) 3D Scan an entire objectt (vintage radio)
B) 3D Print tge whole object in bulk
C) Replicate the internals from diagrams and NOS tubes and parts
D) Sell on item as an original

I would like to think that I am smart enough to tell a bakelite cabinet from a 3D printed one in real life.
But buying online from a photo may be tricky.
Things like the very collectable Empire State radios could be knocked out quickly and they sell for around $2000 here on ebay.
Even a wooden case can be accurately laser cut and built and be hard to identify as a fake.
This is one of the things I fear now when purchasing things online and why I dont buy anything that says "RARE... COLLECTABLE" no matter how much I have always wanted said item.
It is getting harder to spot the fakes and as 3D print technology gets better it will get harder.
The only mistake I have made so far is purchasing "Genuine" HMV radio knobs.
They were genuine resin cast off the original knobs but I knew straight away they were not a bakelite knob from the 1940s.
Only a $4.70 mistake so no big deal and they looked the part.
But it was a good wake up call for me that "GENUINE" is not always genuine nor is it rare.
Photos may have even been real bakelite knobs but the product I received was not.
__________________
If only he could have used his evil genius for niceness instead of evil. Max Smart 18 Sept 1965
Mullard_Nut_74 is offline  
Old 6th Jun 2020, 9:26 am   #65
David G4EBT
Dekatron
 
David G4EBT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Cottingham, East Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 5,737
Default Re: Remanufacturing unobtainable parts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Radio Wrangler View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan_G3XAQ View Post
Were those the 2N3866s with an in-house marking? If so, here's some light. The pic is a pair of cascode amplifiers I use for IMD measurements.
Indeed so. If yours have 4-247 written on the cylindrical surface of their TO-5 can, then I assume yours are two of them. Maybe from a G-QRP club stall or from 'ROO.

There are a few out there that I sent out recently doing sterling work in some loop antenna preamps.

David
There are two from a batch that David kindly gifted to me which have been in use every day for more than a year now, which are indeed doing sterling work in my homebrew loop antenna based on the Gary Tempest version of the 'Wellgood' Wellbook clone, mounted in my loft.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	2N3866 Transistor.jpg
Views:	169
Size:	126.2 KB
ID:	207779   Click image for larger version

Name:	Finished PCB.jpg
Views:	157
Size:	57.7 KB
ID:	207780   Click image for larger version

Name:	Installed in Garage Loft.jpg
Views:	149
Size:	90.8 KB
ID:	207781  
__________________
David.
BVWS Member.
G-QRP Club member 1339.
David G4EBT is offline  
Old 7th Jun 2020, 10:09 am   #66
Philips210
Nonode
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Redruth, Cornwall, UK.
Posts: 2,562
Default Re: Remanufacturing unobtainable parts.

Hi.

In my Magnetic Loop Receiving Aerial (Gary Tempest), those 4-247s kindly supplied by StationX (originally from Radio Wrangler), out performed genuine RCA 2N5109s and some Motorola 2N5109s. Not sure the Motorola ones were genuine though, the performance was down compared to the other two.

Regards,
Symon
Philips210 is offline  
Old 7th Jun 2020, 10:54 am   #67
Radio Wrangler
Moderator
 
Radio Wrangler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Fife, Scotland, UK.
Posts: 22,800
Default Re: Remanufacturing unobtainable parts.

Just glad to see some of them getting used. They'd been heading for landfill until someone asked me if I could find a use for them.

David
__________________
Can't afford the volcanic island yet, but the plans for my monorail and the goons' uniforms are done
Radio Wrangler is online now  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:31 pm.


All information and advice on this forum is subject to the WARNING AND DISCLAIMER located at https://www.vintage-radio.net/rules.html.
Failure to heed this warning may result in death or serious injury to yourself and/or others.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2002 - 2023, Paul Stenning.