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Old 9th Nov 2021, 11:53 am   #1
jimbilton
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Default Sangamo Radio Teleswitch

I live in a ground floor flat in a block of four. My upstairs neighbour had a smart meter fitted by EON last week. The engineer had to switch off my power too whilst he fitted the meter. Since then, my Economy 7 timings have changed - now switching on at 10:30am ( previously 00:30) and off at 17:30 (previously 07:30.) My off peak supply is controlled by a Sangamo Radio Teleswich.
Do you think the smart meter is interfering in some way with the teleswitch, or is it just coincidence that the teleswitch has gone out of kilter at the same time as the fitment of the smart meter? Do teleswitches have a clock inside them, or is it controlled only by the long wave signal from Radio 4? I can’t open the teleswitch to look inside because it has wire ‘seals’ on it.
I’ve tried asking EON about the fault, but they said I have to contact my own energy supplier, which, since my last one went bust recently, is British Gas. British Gas won’t come out to fix the problem until I’ve been a customer for four weeks! Dealing with these energy companies is an utter nightmare , I’ve discovered.
Any advice welcomed.
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Old 9th Nov 2021, 12:29 pm   #2
bionicmerlin
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Default Re: Sangamo Radio Teleswitch

Personally I wouldn’t think there is any problem with the teleswitch. I all my years as a electrician I had never come across a faulty one. It’s more like your provider has altered the time settings.
In the old days with mechanical time switches on the odd occasion if they did go out of sync often the customer would keep quiet as it was to there advantage.
I have had 2 customers with smart meters tell me on the odd occasion there heaters haven’t come on at all.
It seems very common for the smaller provider not to give a good back up service. I also had a British Gas customer have a faulty combined off peak meter go faulty. It took Over a week for them to get his meter fixed and the power to his heating back on.
In my part off the woods SSE .is the main provider.On several occasions I have phoned them due to faults and they come out within 4 hours and if it’s a real emergency within 1 hour.
Most people don’t even know there time switch is out of sync. Could it be to your advantage if you use other things that switch over to off peak early
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Old 9th Nov 2021, 5:05 pm   #3
David Simpson
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Default Re: Sangamo Radio Teleswitch

Right enough, Jim, your original time settings were for Economy 7(Used to be called "White Meter"). The new timing seems to be for a "Total Control" period. As Economy 7 is thought of as somewhat obsolete these days, & an inexperienced meter operative or fixer might have made a mistake. Very few main Utility Companies employ in-house metering staff these days, but instead use sub-contractors.
Radio Teleswitches receive their encoded signal(for E7 & T/C) via Radio 4's 198KHz transmission(a hidden modulation), whearas Smart Meters use Mobile Phone networks which use VHF or UHF.

Regards, David
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Old 9th Nov 2021, 6:37 pm   #4
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Default Re: Sangamo Radio Teleswitch

If implemented properly the Teleswitch system can absorb all that wind etc. at any time. I daresay the midday switching is when a lot of wind and solar are available and people are not charging their vehicles. Quite a lot of the time (it's getting less due to better management) wind turbines have to stop generating, there is nowhere for it to go.
 
Old 9th Nov 2021, 10:01 pm   #5
duncanlowe
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Default Re: Sangamo Radio Teleswitch

Interesting comment that E7 is thought obsolete. My parents moved to a new build 2 years ago, with E7. That is used only for water heating though. Today they had someone come out to survey to change two of their normal panel heaters to advanced storage heaters to take advantage of E7.

I suppose it's possible that they actually have T/C and have just been told it's E7 as someone thought they wouldn't understand, but they would so I doubt it's their misunderstanding.
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Old 10th Nov 2021, 11:23 am   #6
jimbilton
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Default Re: Sangamo Radio Teleswitch

Thank you to all who have responded with information. I still don’t understand how or why the timings have changed . As things are now, the storage heater is charging and the water is heating between 10:30 - 17:30, which is not ideal because my heater has cooled down by the morning - when I need it. The same with the water. I’ll just have to wait to see if British Gas can alter the timing, but if it is controlled by the long wave signal, I don’t see how they can.
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Old 10th Nov 2021, 12:01 pm   #7
David Simpson
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Default Re: Sangamo Radio Teleswitch

Jim, you'll need to monitor your 2 Rate Meter. As far as I know the E7 times haven't changed from approx midnight til 7am(depending on summer/winter clock changes). This is when your 2 Rate Meter should change to "Low". At the same time the Imm'n heater should be switched on between approx 4am & 7am. Which means that all your water heating & space heating from storage heaters just use the "cheap rate" units. The rest of the "normal" period(approx 7am til midnight) actually is charged at a slightly higher rate than the basic 24 hour(Domestic 01) rate. White Meter or E7 used to be code "02" on electricity bills. Bollox to having your Imm'n heater using 3 Units/hr at the more expensive daytime rate.
Most folk up here with Domestic Economy 02(E7) have a seperate Horstman E7 timers(which includes a 2hr booster manual timer) in place of a basic Imm'n Heater Switch/Fuse. With the the S/W Radio Teleswitch just changing over the whole house's electricity from "Normal" to "Low", then back again. That means that you plug in independant timeswitches to any ring main socket & say- run your expensive washing machine & tumbler dryer after midnight to save money! Or heat a greenhouse or polytunnel on cold winter nights. Or more importantly - charge your eco-friendly electric car.
If your Utility Company has deliberately changed your tarriff settings without your permission - complain immediately to OFGEN

Regards, David

Last edited by David Simpson; 10th Nov 2021 at 12:03 pm. Reason: spelling
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Old 10th Nov 2021, 1:31 pm   #8
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Default Re: Sangamo Radio Teleswitch

Economy 7 still seems to be "a thing", unless the web pages are very out of date:

https://www.edfenergy.com/for-home/e...bout-economy-7

OTOH, they then go on to say:
Quote:
We don't install E7 meters anymore, or have a tariff called ‘Economy 7’. We do offer a great range of energy tariffs and smart meters though.
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Old 10th Nov 2021, 6:16 pm   #9
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Default Re: Sangamo Radio Teleswitch

I think you maybe dealing with the wrong company?

Eon as a utility company is only interested in what you are using after the meter.
Utility companies are usually a dead loss in dealing with.

You need the company that deals with the cable going into your house and connecting up to the meters etc such as UK Powernetworks.

I have found them excellent with any problem I have had before the fusebox.
I am sure they would act quickly if you tell them you have no heat.

Also as an obsolete system are you sure they still transmit the signal? and it was just free running anyway.

and if it is obsolete and you are left in the lurch I would just break the seal and reset it myself rather than freeze.
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Old 10th Nov 2021, 6:48 pm   #10
David Simpson
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Default Re: Sangamo Radio Teleswitch

Jim, is your meter & timeswitch in its own white box outside your flat, on on a board in an internal cupboard ? If it is, then each flat might well have it's own fused lateral & Henley Cut-Out Supply. But perhaps you & the flat above are supplied on one series lateral from a mains Cabinet or Cupboard in the basement. BUT - you should have separate metering & timeswitches, etc.
As far as I know, BBC still rents signal space on their R4 198KHz transmissions to the main Utility suppliers. Maybe you could do some internet research.
As Charlie says, I would recommend folk stick to the same Electricity Supplier who also runs & maintains the supply network. These other Billing companies, who often are embroiled in competition with others - still have to contact the privatised version of the original pre-1990's local Electricity Board, whenever a supply fault occurs. As I said earlier, these billing companies do sometimes use metering sub-contractors once they've persuaded folk to take up their latest "deal". They might knock on your door and say that they're an "Engineer" from such & such a supplier, but in some cases they've had even less than the basic (12 weeks) training that Openreach "Engineers" have had ! They're just a basic semi-skilled "meter installer" who hasn't any City & Guilds, ONC/HNC/University Electrical Engineering training what so ever.

Regards, David
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Old 10th Nov 2021, 8:52 pm   #11
duncanlowe
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Default Re: Sangamo Radio Teleswitch

Electricity suppliers don't run the network at all. For example where I live, the supply network is run by Western Power distribution. If I have a power cut, it's them I contact. Before the change it was MEB, who don't exist, but I believe became part of EoN. EoN do not run the network.

If something is to be done to my meter, it's done by, or on behalf of the company I'm buying my energy from. Today I had both my Gas and electricity meters changed, not by WPD but by people on contract to EDF.

What you are saying is a bit like saying it's better to stick with BT for internet because they run the network. They don't, openreach do. It might have been that at the start of the change, BT had better access to OR, but there would be an awful lot of fuss if there was a sniff of BT getting preferential response from OR given these days they are entirely differnt companies.
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Old 11th Nov 2021, 11:47 am   #12
David Simpson
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Default Re: Sangamo Radio Teleswitch

Right enough, Duncan, I suspect that the diversification that has taken place south of the Border is now somewhat confusing. Thankfully, up here I still get billed by SSE(formally Scottish Hydro-Electric), and linesmen, jointers, engineers & meter readers still tootle about in their SSE vans & landrovers. I've stayed loyal because I have every confidence in their local fault repair response & maintainance of the whole 11/33KV Network, but also - because the ******* pay me a jolly good pension.
The UK has already had a serious recent scare with gas billing companies going bust. God forbid that should happen with the prolification of electricity billing companies.
As for heffing "Openreach" & BT fault reporting('specially us poor folk still stuck with ADSL) - read my "bangings-on" in past threds & posts.
To sum up - Jim's problem wouldn't have occured on my watch, back in the day(as an Electricity Installation Inspector). Fannying about by Meter Fixers wasn't tolerated.

Regards, David
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Old 14th Nov 2021, 10:52 pm   #13
jimbilton
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Default Re: Sangamo Radio Teleswitch

Thank you to all for your wisdom and input. I am told by the Northern Powergrid that I must report my fault to British Gas. Easier said than done. I've spent in excess of ninety minutes on the phone to them - most of the time in a call queue - and each time when I do actually speak to a human, they give me a different number to ring - and so it goes on.
Such is modern life. I don't think it was like this in the good old days - 1960's / 70's!
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Old 15th Nov 2021, 12:50 am   #14
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Default Re: Sangamo Radio Teleswitch

My trick is to list all the numbers I am told to call and once I am given a number I have been given previously I just inform the call centre operator that he/she would have to deal with the enquiry as the number I was being given had already been tried.
It worked for me last time I had a billing problem with a utility company that was clearly there fault.
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Old 15th Nov 2021, 8:40 am   #15
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Default Re: Sangamo Radio Teleswitch

An alternative that has worked for me is to find out the name of the CEO and email them directly. The CEOs of most big concerns have a team set up to deal with precisely this sort of complaint from annoyed customers and the response is usually swift.

The CEO’s email address is unlikely to be published but it’s very likely to be of the form firstname.lastname @ company.co.uk. If the address doesn’t work you’ve lost nothing and can simply try another format.

There’s also this advice on getting a response from British Gas https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/co...ake-complaint/

Good luck!
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Old 15th Nov 2021, 2:27 pm   #16
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Default Re: Sangamo Radio Teleswitch

You could always try Tweeting about your problem or posting to the Facebook pages of the supplier, being publicly called out for bad customer service on social media is a marketing person's worst nightmare and they will want to do something to avoid the negative impact.
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Old 15th Nov 2021, 4:52 pm   #17
David Simpson
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Default Re: Sangamo Radio Teleswitch

General advice to all regarding the prolification of billing companies, supply companies, and their possible sub-contractors - - When a "Man in a Van" calls - - - always take his name & job title. Plus the full name of who he works for and their direct contact details. Also, if someone changes a meter &/or a timeswitch - obtain the old & new serial numbers. For just meters - always write down the old & new meter readings.
If the person says "It's all done on my Hand-Held Computer" - - as I recall under Offgen regulations - all these details must be given to you if you insist. Writing down the mannie's van's Registration is also a good idea.

Regards, David
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Old 25th Nov 2021, 2:33 pm   #18
jimbilton
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Default Re: Sangamo Radio Teleswitch

Thank you all. I finally got a response from British Gas by using the Messenger service on Facebook. They responded the next day, and arranged for an electrical engineer to call last Friday. Without investigating the radio teleswitch, he decided he would order and fit a new combined meter and time switch. This is to be fitted tomorrow.
I recommend Facebook Messenger as a comparatively stress free method of contacting British Gas.
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Old 25th Nov 2021, 5:06 pm   #19
David Simpson
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Default Re: Sangamo Radio Teleswitch

Jim, glad that BG has got their finger out. As I said back on the 10th, Electricity Supply Companies wouldn't send out an "Electrical Engineer" to merely examine & subsequently change your metering installation. Just a meter fixer "man in a van". Electrical Engineers with a Degree or HND, etc., drive around in posh cars & wear suits or a decent collar & tie outfit, & supervise skilled & semi-skilled tradesmen.
I see that another electricity billing company went bust last week.

Regards, David
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