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Old 31st Dec 2019, 9:07 pm   #1181
stevehertz
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

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Originally Posted by FERNSEH View Post
Seems like the 'phools have discovered the humble 6C4 triode. Even that little valve has come to their attention. But make sure you buy the Mullard version because it makes a better sound.

DFWB.
I can't comment on their use in hifi amps, but they certainly DO make a difference in guitar amps. Mullards sound much better than current production Chinese and Russian valves. Mind you, I'm mainly (not totally) referring to their sound when operating near or into distortion, a common operational mode for guitarists. The breakup pattern of Mullards is sweet, musical and warm, while others are often harsh, brittle and discordant. The difference is much less when operating as non-distorting amplifiers.
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Old 31st Dec 2019, 11:47 pm   #1182
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

I thought the 6C4 was precisely half a 12AU7.

David
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Old 31st Dec 2019, 11:56 pm   #1183
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

My first (illeagal) transmitter used a 6C4 27MHZ ish ( I was only 11)

Cracking little bottle way too useful for Phoolery.

Cheers

Mike T
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Old 18th Jan 2020, 2:04 pm   #1184
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

Looking for reviews of Radford amps (I'm not interested in owning one may I add, just interested, I've done the valve hifi thing) I just happened across this guy's 'comparison review' of Radford, Quad and Leak valve amps. Bless him he goes through the dictionary of audiophool cliches and whimsical, meaningless descriptions. They're all here, "amp is faster", "narrower sound stage", "amp has exuberance", "more modern sounding", " amp has the most clearly defined leading edges to notes", "soundstage is more stable".

Here's the review in all its glory:

"I have now had several months to compare the flaws & virtues of all of these in my system. Unfortunately I have not been able to use the 57's so this is largely based on the units driving the Hornings which have Lowther mids but are otherwise not horn based at all. They do comprise an easy 4 ohm load but don't like to go loud.

At the end of the day I suppose the Radford would be classed as the most "modern sounding" of the group- it's the "fastest" & has the most clearly defined leading edges to notes. Bass definition is similar to the Leak but the treble is slightly more rounded off. Soundstage is also a mite narrower but more stable. Where the Leak really scores is in it's exuberance- if I end up saying it's more like listening to music than hi-fi I hope people will understand.

Which brings us to the Quads- which at the moment are my favourite while being the least accurate by a long way of the three. The Leak stages better & has much more treble & bass control; the Radford is faster & much more precise. So what is it about the Quads that make them so much more vivid as a music experience? I remember asking myself this years ago when I thought I had bought my final amp in a Conrad JHohnson transistor powerhouse that was so heavy I had to place it on the floor- & yet I kept going back to the Quads... Are they subtly coloured?

Why do I never want to stop the music when they are on? Can anyone tell me?

My next job is going to be an audition of the new Icons against the Radfords. Unless this produces incredibly surprising results I'll have to decide which of the 3 old ladies to let go as I really can't justify three power amps- & I suppose the one I can most easily live without will be the STA 25. Maybe I'll change my mind in a few months- who knows?

One thing is for certain- in their own ways they are all mighty fine amps & if there are modern designs out there that are better I'd love to know what they are."
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Old 18th Jan 2020, 2:45 pm   #1185
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

Has anyone pointed out to him that while the Radford STA25 and (most likely, depending on which amp it is) the Leak have 4ohm output tappings, the Quads (presumably Quad IIs) don't. They're wireable for 8ohms or 15ohms only (it is possible to use just part of the windings to get a better match to 4ohms, but the transformer wasn't designed for this). This might explain why the Quads are the "least accurate". The irony of preferring to listen to amps which are behaving inaccurately seems lost on him, although the well-documented preference among blind-tested listeners for a bit of 2nd harmonic distortion might be a factor.

Cheers,

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Old 18th Jan 2020, 4:33 pm   #1186
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

The killer for me is - after he has performed all these in depth listening tests and put pen to paper re his findings - he says, "Maybe I'll change my mind in a few months- who knows?"

Makes you think the answers blew to him on a karma inducing sorrento wind in the first place..
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Old 18th Jan 2020, 6:02 pm   #1187
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

Makes you think there ought to be an annual prize for the greatest number of audiphoolery terms and phrases in one article. Mind you, that might just encourage longer articles... maybe it ought to be a 'per thousand words' ratio?

There's nothing surer than the guy changing his mind in a few months. They have the curse of the flying dutchman upon them; condemned to eternally having to change things and never finding peace.

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Old 18th Jan 2020, 6:07 pm   #1188
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

Currently listening via a TDA7293 stereo amplifier chip, a whole fiver! the audio sounds marvellous.
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Old 18th Jan 2020, 6:18 pm   #1189
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

Ah, but are The Grateful Dead or the Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra or the entire cast and band of Les Mis 'in the room with you' ? (They might be a bit cramped in my living room, to be honest.)

Cheers,

GJ
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Old 18th Jan 2020, 6:21 pm   #1190
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

I have some sympathy with the audio reviewer above. Let's not forget the wine and whisky is described in equally flowery terms, and even more so. And those reviews are a subjective assessment.
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Old 18th Jan 2020, 6:42 pm   #1191
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

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I have some sympathy with the audio reviewer above. Let's not forget the wine and whisky is described in equally flowery terms, and even more so. And those reviews are a subjective assessment.
Well they're just the same, and I fail to see how cases of similar stupidity or falseness in other fields is cause for sympathy in this one, certainly not from me! But anyway, how many times have wine tasters been caught out with a £5 bottle of Tesco plonk? loads. But ha, at least they'll try blind 'testing', audiophools won't. And on the rare occasions that they do, they are usually woefully wrong.
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Old 18th Jan 2020, 7:54 pm   #1192
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

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Originally Posted by stevehertz View Post
But anyway, how many times have wine tasters been caught out with a £5 bottle of Tesco plonk?
A bit OT, but IMO the £3.50 stuff from Aldi or Lidl is better than the £5 from Tesco. But then again it's kind of on topic as it's related to people beleiving how good something is based largely on how expensive it is.
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Old 18th Jan 2020, 7:55 pm   #1193
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

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Let's not forget the wine and whisky is described in equally flowery terms
Well, if it tastes nice and gets you merry all well and good. Wine experts are well known for confusing dyed white from red at room temperature (room temperature is castle room, the big tower things, about 15C).
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Old 18th Jan 2020, 8:36 pm   #1194
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

It really is about what you like. I was listening to the cricket on a SUG61, and couldn't have enjoyed it more. The national anthem coming through at close of play on Radio 4 felt very Wartime, and nothing to do with some measurement of sound quality.

I had an interesting wine experience in the summer at a biodynamic winery in Alsace-Lorraine. the vintner was insistent that instead of trying to outsmart the wine, the important thing was to see whether you liked it or not.

The trouble with audiophiles, wine snobs and all the rest is that they're not doing it for the enjoyment of the wine, the atmosphere, the sun on the leaves and the music, but to extract the enjoyment and leave only the sour hangover of what might have been, or what will impress someone else. Not a healthy way to proceed with any of life's myriad activities.

However, I do think that a fiver is a real minimum. Below that the duty cost means the wine itself cost something like <50p! Branding aside, sometimes you get what you pay for!

Blind tasting for the purposes of finding the best tasting wine is an excellent idea that is often practised, but in audiophile circles it's the perceived value of confirmation bias that matters. Or, if there's no-one to show off to then it's that gnawing sense of self-doubt that it could be better.

Now, back to the beer and music...!
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Old 18th Jan 2020, 9:34 pm   #1195
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

I'm not sure which will make you more unpopular in hifi circles: being an advocate of measurements, or ABX testing. If you are a proponent of both, then you certainly will find a lot of vitriol thrown at you.

Having said that, I'm in complete agreement with Mr Bulgaria. Audio is an 'aesthetic' choice in my book. As to why people expend energy arguing which subjective choice is better is utterly beyond me (well, maybe it is because there is money involved? And you can't fight a fair fight based on subjective opinion, so there is plenty of scope for extracting said cash from those with more of it than knowledge of basic physics).
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Old 18th Jan 2020, 9:35 pm   #1196
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

Really nice hi-fi does sound nice, I don't get what the issue is.
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Old 18th Jan 2020, 9:50 pm   #1197
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

I'd be willing to bet the comparing party didn't take any of the three amplifiers near a test bench to make sure they were working as intended...
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Old 18th Jan 2020, 9:53 pm   #1198
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

...... well I do like the sound of my Radford STA25, but I only paid a fiver for it some 30 years ago!
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Old 18th Jan 2020, 10:42 pm   #1199
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I only paid a fiver for it some 30 years ago!
Cheaper than chips...
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Old 18th Jan 2020, 11:00 pm   #1200
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

Not sure how much chips cost in Maidenhead but they are much less than a fiver here in North Staffs

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