Very old fridge, but how old?

[Jan Zodiac]

Hi all,

The other day I picked up this very old refridgerator. A young couple had bough a large house that for generations belonged to a wealthy family. The house was built in 1937, and the large kitchen in the basement, was the original. The fridge was part of the furniture/cupboards, and it looked as if it all fitted well together.

But could this fridge really be from the late 30's? I always had old fridges, but they were always 50's ones. Even in the 50's it was far from every household that had one.

There is no name on this particular fridge, and there is practically nothing to find about danish refridgeration through history. I do know that Danfoss, which made the thermostat on this one, and probably the valves on the cooling unit, started in 1933. So technically this one could be really old.
I know that fridges could be custom build by carpenters, and then fitted with a cooling unit, from very early on. But these are very rare.

From the design of this one, it certainly does not look like a 50's model in my view, but I don't really have anything to compare with.

Has anyone seen this type of design before and might know the approximate age of it?

The compressor unit is made here in Denmark as well. Since there is no name on the fridge itself, this could very well be a custom build unit, made to fit that particular kitchen.

It does run by the way, but needs a refill of refridgerant (or is it called coolant?).
The evaporator valve is adjustable, so I believe it can be converted to another type than R12.

No matter what, this is an extremely rare find, and the condition is really excellent. I was told it had run until around 1980 where a newer kitchen upstairs was fitted to the house and the old one remained unused ever since.

Regards,

Jan

[David G4EBT]

The snippet below is from a short preview of a 21-page article, and might be of interest.

In particular, the statement that until the 1950s, the electricity supply in Denmark (rather like the UK) was largely DC mains, so I think it's more likely than not that the fridge is at the earliest, late 1940s/early 1950s. That said, it's stated that refrigerators were available (as luxury items) from the late 1920s.

Quote:

'Introducing New Technology to Danish Housewives, 1900-1960'.

The first central power plant opened in Denmark in 1892, but only electric light and the radio was widespread in most Danish homes through World War II. After the war, electric appliances were accepted and bought by the majority of Danish households. At first, the refrigerator was the electric appliance preferred by most Danish housewives, along with freezing technology in the countryside. Later the washing machine became widely distributed. The co-operative movement was strong in Denmark, as illustrated by the many small co-op freezing houses in the countryside as well as co-op washing facilities.

Electric companies had worked to introduce electric appliances to Danish housewives since the late 1920s, but in this early period a refrigerator and an electric stove were considered a luxury by most housewives.

Only when refrigerators became cheaper were they considered rational and economic devices by the general housewife. Also, there was a limit to the distribution of power, since Denmark, to a large degree, used only direct current until the 1950s. Compared to several other European countries, Denmark was an undeveloped country in regards to electricity.

Unquote.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/23789347

(The author is the curator/vice-director of the Danish Museum of Energy).

Hope that's of interest.

[Craig Sawyers]

We had a fridge very similar to yours. The tiny freezer compartment on the upper right is identical, and housed an aluminium freezer tray for ice cubes.

Ours must have been even earlier, in that it was gas powered. Like this https://www.mediastorehouse.com/mary...s-7220013.html

I thought gas powered fridges were a thing of my childhood past, but they are still a thing for caravans etc https://www.jacksons-camping.co.uk/cool/gasmains.htm

Craig

[rontech]

My parents house was built in 1938 and they moved in in May 1939 when I was born. The kitchen was very up to date with fitted cupboards etc. There was a built in fridge made by HMV. I recall my mother making ice lolies and ice cream in the freezer compartment. Happy days.

[CambridgeWorks]

Looks 1940s to me.
I first started in refrigeration 1970, working with my father. He was trained in the Royal Navy in the late 1940s. He had signed up in 1939.
In my first year big old domestic refrigerators with the belt driven compressor were still occasionally seen when out servicing. However, any gas leak on the compressor, usually the shaft seal, meant it was BER.
Occasionally it just required a new vee belt and I carried 20 to 30 A and B profile belts in my van, plus universal fixing kit Ranco thermostats, driers, copper pipe, fixings and of course R12 gas.

Whether your one is a "York" compressor I don't know, but from memory that was the colour of their compressors. R12 is banned and any conversion would be extremely expensive, especially if the compressor requires restoration, assuming seals and such items were available.
Also, modern refrigerants will operate at higher cylinder head pressures, so may not work correctly with your compressor.
Here is an article on refrigerants I found:
https://www.thoughtco.com/history-of-freon-4072212

Rob

[Jan Zodiac]

Hi David,

Thank you, and yes that is an interesting article. It is correct that, at least at the countryside, most local power supplies were DC. But there were smaller local AC power plants as well, already from very early on. This is the reason most appliances were always "universal" or AC/DC.
It is not unlikely that the area from where I picked up the fridge, was AC powered.

The family who built the house, owned several grocery stores, and traded almost anything possible. The very large house also had two bathrooms, while most houses built at that time didn't even have a single one. So there is no doubt that they were wealthy.
They could have ordered a fridge from very early on, but since I never saw a model of that design, I can't really figure out how old it could be. For a late 40's or early 50's type, it seems very outdated to me, but I could be wrong of course.

The Atlas K185 from the attached pictures, I think was introduced around 1955-56 and ran for some years. It has the Danfoss "pancake" compressor (from a Tecumseh license I believe). My great grandparents had an older similar looking Atlas, which was an absorbtion type with its condenser placed on top of the unit for better cooling.


After WW2, most fridges sold here were absorbtion types, probably again because it could be used on both AC and DC.

Jan

[Craig Sawyers]

R12 was used in many places - not just in refrigerators, but in car air conditioning. Like fridges, any conversion to non-ozone depleting refrigerants is indeed complex and costly.

Craig

[Jan Zodiac]

Yes it seems very possible that restoring it and converting to another refrigerant is either impossible or very expensive. A bit of a shame, since it is a well preserved and nice item from the past.
It is not unlikely that the compressor would need a rebuild, and the fact that R12 is banned, makes it even more impossible.

I love the ad on the gas driven fridge "Mr Therm BURNS to serve you"

[bluepilot]

The door catch would be illegal nowadays. There were too many problems with children playing hide-and-seek and getting stuck in discarded fridges and dying before they were found. Nowadays they have to be openable by pushing from the inside. I don't know when the law came into force but that would presumably give an approximate latest date.

[Jan Zodiac]

I didn't know that about the door catch, but it does seem reasonable. I never heard about kids dying in them though. I once had a large 50's Bosch, and it could even be locked with a key.

Jan

[Cobaltblue]

Originally Posted by Jan Zodiac

I didn't know that about the door catch, but it does seem reasonable. I never heard about kids dying in them though. I once had a large 50's Bosch, and it could even be locked with a key.

Jan

It was a big thing in the USA.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refr...d%20dismantled.

Cheers

Mike T

[thermion]

Good lord.. haven’t seen a belt driven fridge for decades!
I remember making an air compressor out a big old fridge compressor.
It had one of them weird repulsion start induction motors if memory serves.

[Jan Zodiac]

Originally Posted by Cobaltblue

It was a big thing in the USA.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refr...d%20dismantled.

Cheers

Mike T

That is really quite a number of deaths. Horrible.

[Graham G3ZVT]

https://youtu.be/10Pz8_7H9CQ?si=BN6vXkJCdS3WVdGI

[G6Tanuki]

Originally Posted by Jan Zodiac

That is really quite a number of deaths. Horrible.

I remember the UK 'public information movie' from the early-70s. It kinda freaked us kids.

[Maarten]

Is it certain that it contains R12? In that case, HC-12a would be a drop in replacement, though it's flammable (it's a mix of R290 and R600a, both also used in modern cooling installations).

[Joe_Lorenz]

Hello,

a nice read and sweet memories! The grocery store in my neighbourhood as a child had a similar one. I just remember it was noisy!

There is one point I'm afraid I cannot agree to the popular opinion "There is no easy & cheap replacement for R12": There is, and it is legally sold in the EU! For an application that must not be discussed in this forums I have converted a 1975 made a/c system from R12 to that new refrigerant, and it has been running successfully since last spring.

Joe

[Richard_FM]

I have a video of Public Information Films with the same one about old fridges.

The Young Ones had a spoof caption in an episode where someone gets locked in a fridge.

[Ted Kendall]

Originally Posted by Cobaltblue

It was a big thing in the USA.

And in the UK, too - I remember an item, on Nationwide I think, demonstrating making a discarded fridge safe by taking a hammer to the body half of the lock.

[Jan Zodiac]

I don't think we ever had a campaign warning against being locked inside a fridge here, although it makes a lot of sense. I asked older people, and they never heard about warnings and also never heard about accidents.
It could be that these things was not "laying around" because they were expensive and when completely worn out, they were scrapped.

And also the fact that it's a small country with a small population.

The refridgerant is R12, as it is stamped on the ID plate on the compressor unit.

It would be great if it would be possible to actually get it running, and keep it running. I don't know the condition of the compressor itself and/or if it needs a rebuild, but if that would be the only major part to rebuild that might be a bit expensive, I would get that done.

I know A/C systems in classic cars have been succesfully converted to R134a, so why would it not be possible with this one? It practically has the exact same components.

Even if HC-12a is flammable, wouldn't it require a complete leakage like a broken tube, to be dangerous? I have an old gas stove in the kitchen as well, and there are people who says that is dangerous too, although I never experienced problems. I believe a gas alarm could be used in this case.

Joe you are right, it does not run whisper quiet But I wouldn't say it's at a level that in any way is annoying.

Jan