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Old 30th Jul 2020, 3:04 pm   #21
robreddog
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Default Re: Any record deck recommendations anyone?

hi, well i did'nt mean to start a deck wars
i recently refurbed a dansette and was reminded how they sounded back in the day,(rose tinted).
my records are r&b 50's on, up to robert cray era, soul and general 50's 60's
singer songwriters etc etc,33 and 45.
so i will contact paulR, think i'll just look at the garrards, i have spent thousands in the past on hifi and tinnitus tells me not to be silly again.
regards all.
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Old 30th Jul 2020, 4:32 pm   #22
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Default Re: Any record deck recommendations anyone?

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There are modern turntables in current production, but whether the manufacturers will sell spare parts is an interesting matter. Has anyone tried to get spares for a Rega or a Project... or an SME! The former might just be in with a chance, the latter I expect is please return to factory for service.
A few weeks ago I contacted SME regarding the availability of spare parts for an SME 3009 Series II S2 Improved arm and was pleasantly surprised to find that most parts are still available despite all the changes at SME in recent times. I'll refrain from comment regarding prices but will say that SME's spares department is extremely helpful and eager to please.

Alan

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Old 30th Jul 2020, 4:43 pm   #23
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hi, well i did'nt mean to start a deck wars
No deck wars, it's a deck 'discussion', which is the idea of these forums, so you're just fine - no worries
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Old 30th Jul 2020, 5:45 pm   #24
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the instructions to play 7" records are impractical.
Did they actually issue specific instructions for how to play 7" records on the RC72? It would be interesting to actually see them if they did. Obviously it can be made to play 7" records if you know what you're doing, but it's far from ideal.
I thought I had a users manual for it but I cannot find it now. From memory it uses the method I suspect you are thinking of. Set it for a 12 inch record then when it has set down move the arm in manually to the edge of the 7" record. I think it said to move the "feeler" arm backwards over the main arm to disable it.

Looking at the manual I do have, the deck I mentioned is a 75A not an 88.
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Old 30th Jul 2020, 6:40 pm   #25
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I don't think the RC72 has a feeler arm as such. Yes, you catch the arm at the 12" set down position and move it in by hand to the 7" position, taking care to do it slowly enough so as not to set off the auto trip. If the arm suddenly sets off the trip and you've got hold of it, there's no safety clutch on these decks and there's enough power in the mechanism to snap something, probably the arm pivot.

The later RC75 stacks the 7" singles at an angle with no stabiliser on this size to steady them, so if the last one on the stack is not perfectly balanced, the feeler arm will come across and the unbalanced record will tip up on the spindle causing the feeler arm to ride under it, causing a nice permanent mark on the 'B' side of the disc. Each record has to be perfectly flat and the gap between them exact (hence no stabiliser pressing them together and closing the gap), otherwise the 'pusher' will hit two together, jamming them in the spindle platform gap, snapping one or both in half (seen it happen with these, trust me) and the pickup drops onto the turntable felt, ruining the stylus! A modification is to fit a 'cap' on the top of the feeler arm so that records can't slide up and over it.

These are great decks, but you have to be fully familiar with the technology and have a special stack of 7" singles to play on them. When these deck were made, it was assumed that quality control would make all singles the same density throughout, so that they would all be level and in perfect balance - that was not the case in the real world, hence this technology was eventually abandoned with the invention of the straight stacker spindle and autochange mechanism that we're all used to using today. They were really designed to use the large centre hole adapter spindle, but even with these, those blades can come out and catch a single wrong and snap it in half - seen it happen myself with one of these too. They play 78s very well, but even with these you have to check the thickness of the record for whether it will fit through the spindle platform gap (many old acoustic ones don't), otherwise it's broken record time again!
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Old 31st Jul 2020, 12:58 am   #26
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it would be just like me to buy something that you can't get parts for anymore.
That pretty much eliminates all turntables.

The old classics like Garrards aren't made any more, though there are aftermarket suppliers covering some spares for some models, but that means only the 301 and 401 and you won't like their prices.

There are modern turntables in current production, but whether the manufacturers will sell spare parts is an interesting matter. Has anyone tried to get spares for a Rega or a Project... or an SME! The former might just be in with a chance, the latter I expect is please return to factory for service.


David
I do know from personal experience that Rega will service and repair anything they have made since year dot, as long as the spares are still in stock and if not they'll replace with a newer part, if appropriate. And for very reasonable prices.
Worth asking if they'll sell parts too, obviously in that case I imagine warranties will be restricted.
Ebay is a useful reference point.
This applies to their electronics too with the above caveats on stocks of obsolete parts.
An old fashioned attitude that's a pleasant surprise in this day and age.

A.
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Old 31st Jul 2020, 3:20 am   #27
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Default Re: Any record deck recommendations anyone?

Robredog, if you've been involved in hifi in the past, you'll know of SME and their beautiful arms. Since then the owners retired and sold the business, but it's still going and went into making turntables as well. They recently announced that they would no-longer sell arms alone. The only way to get one is with a new turntable and their turntables are at the ultra-expensive end of the audiophile market.

It's very good news to hear that their classic arms are still supported with spares.

For you, I think that period turntables from when radios had gram inputs are going to be too early for working well with 7 inch 45s, if they have the speed at all.

If you can stomach an anachronism in the shape of a later turntable then things open up. I'm not a fan of autochangers, they seem to have too much to go wrong, though there are people on here keeping many going. I think they're a bit rough on records though most of mine are LPs.

I think Garrards were better quality than BSR
Collaro have a very complex mechanism and need a degree of experience in restoration.

There was a collaro single-player turntable, but it's quite rare.

The audiophile market is after certain models and their interest pumps prices far above your stated budget, so you need to find something under their radar.

You also can't think of turntables without considering cartridges. Good piezoelectric cartridges are now starting to get hard to find in useable condition (the crystals in crystal ones are hygroscopic and slowly turn to slime) One benefit in an anachronistic turntable is that you could go for something which wouldn't wreck a magnetic cartridge... they are still available new at reasonable prices they are a lot lighter on your records and they give you an escape route from piezo-electric types. What they wouldn't be good for is 78s, you don't get anything like the flip over standard/microgroove cartridges of yore.

Some useful progress was made from the thirties to the seventies in playing records, and the formats of the records evolved as well, so in general, it's worth pinning the tail on the donkey as late along the chronology as you can get away with.

The SP25 and SL series look a bit older than they really are. There are also some Dual models worth looking at.

It all comes down to what happens to turn up while you're looking, and what condition it's in. There are very many models possible.

David
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Old 31st Jul 2020, 8:37 am   #28
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Default Re: Any record deck recommendations anyone?

Please excuse my ignorance, but do some old valve radios have "pick-up" inputs with RIAA equalization built in?
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Old 31st Jul 2020, 8:41 am   #29
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I've been very happy with the BSR UA6 used in my Black Box. A 3 speed autochanger that handles all sizes without fuss. It doesn't do single play without still using the auto mechanism. I believe that came with the UA8.

People dismiss BSR, but remember Collaro were sued for copying their mechanism and Garrard poached their designer!

I don't think you've actually said what your radio is. Beware using a turntable into a live chassis design. I've been experimenting with Bluetooth in both the radio and a turntable for a wireless connection. Sort of a modern version of the American turntables that contained a small AM transmitter
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Old 31st Jul 2020, 8:47 am   #30
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Please excuse my ignorance, but do some old valve radios have "pick-up" inputs with RIAA equalization built in?
None that I've ever heard of, but there are plenty of little RIAA preamp boxes on the market nowadays that will let such a radio run from a magnetic cartridge so the reducing supply of high-output crystal cartridges can be dodged.

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Old 31st Jul 2020, 8:51 am   #31
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Please excuse my ignorance, but do some old valve radios have "pick-up" inputs with RIAA equalization built in?
I have never seen a classic era valve radio with RIAA. The PU input is normally a cheap addition for the manufacturer just requiring a switch to route the signal to the existing AF amplifier. This means the input must be high output and already equalised, a crystal pickup does this for 'free'. A magnetic RIAA input would almost certainly need its own dedicated valve, so would cost more and confuse the customer base.
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Old 31st Jul 2020, 9:07 am   #32
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I don't think we need to worry about spares particularly except, maybe, idler wheels which can be repaired anyway. Decks such as the BSR UA14 and those based on the Garrard Autoslim chassis are so over engineered that they will last for ever unless they are physically broken. From what the OP says he just wants to play records through his radio, nothing hi-fi or delicate. The main problem with decks like this is that they rarely came with a plinth in this country, unlike the USA from the photographs you see from that country.

A bit different I know but I remember my mother being told that she should buy a new Hoover because spares on hers were being discontinued. The same Hoover was still in constant use 30 years later.
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Old 31st Jul 2020, 10:20 am   #33
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Default Re: Any record deck recommendations anyone?

well the deck will play through any radio i am restoring, done a philips (daughter loves radio 1 sound) presently running echo a274 chassis on the bench while i restore the cabinet, got 2 grundig 3028 that will need plenty of attention.
so i am contacting paulR and looking around, theres a collaro for auction it's in a ecko portable any idea that model might be.
wifes big birthday next year what do you think of feeding one channel into each radio for big sound for the garden party, but yes that would need a stereo stylus.
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Old 31st Jul 2020, 12:20 pm   #34
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Most ceramic cartridges on sale are stereo so you would just need the two outputs to connect to two radios. The Collaros I have come across have very narrow heads and it may be difficult to fit a modern cart into them. You need a stereo compatible cart rather than just a stylus fitted to a mono cart.

The Grundig 3028 looks like a nice set but I am not sure how much power you would get from it as it has a single ended output. It may not give a "big sound" outdoors. If you use two different models of sets you would get poor stereo matching of course. There again, manufacturers were happy to sell stereo add on units to their record players in the '60s and '70s with very different sonic qualities to the player itself.
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Old 31st Jul 2020, 12:42 pm   #35
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Default Re: Any record deck recommendations anyone?

A Garrard RC72 ,RC75, RC80 etc. will be absolutely no use for what you want, as they were never really intended to play vinyl and will likely trash them - as I described in my previous post.

They will only play at 78 rpm due to the fact that 78 is a direct drive off the motor, whereas the other two speeds are an add on, each driven by a now unobtainable short, flat belt, which are likely to have long disintegrated (I forgot to mention this fact in my previous post). I really like these old decks, but you have to know what you're doing to live with one.

I recommend the Garrard TA MK2 single player, the Garrard Autoslim range of autochangers (beware of dodgy idlers), The BSR UA8 autochanger. Any of these decks that have 'round' control knobs need to be complete with unbroken knobs, as when they're not serviced, their owners try to turn the knobs and they snap off and they're unobtainable, with hundreds of people out there looking and asking for them without success.

I think David said that he thought the Garrard SP25 etc. looked a bit older than they really are - I actually think they look a bit too modern, but they are probably the best bet of all the decks described.

Remember, and I'll say it again - they'll all need 'some' work!

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Old 31st Jul 2020, 6:24 pm   #36
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Default Re: Any record deck recommendations anyone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajgriff View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radio Wrangler View Post
There are modern turntables in current production, but whether the manufacturers will sell spare parts is an interesting matter. Has anyone tried to get spares for a Rega or a Project... or an SME! The former might just be in with a chance, the latter I expect is please return to factory for service.
A few weeks ago I contacted SME regarding the availability of spare parts for an SME 3009 Series II S2 Improved arm and was pleasantly surprised to find that most parts are still available despite all the changes at SME in recent times. I'll refrain from comment regarding prices but will say that SME's spares department is extremely helpful and eager to please.

Alan
About 20 years ago, I bought an early Rega secondhand, the one with the Acos Lustre tonearm. It was old even then, and had no belt. When I contacted Rega to ask if belts were still available, they made up the correct size and sent it to me FOC. I'm not a Rega turntable fan, but I've never forgot their kindness to an 'old newbie'. I too have had good reponses from SME to 3009 spares enquiries, though this was before the change of ownership.
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Old 3rd Aug 2020, 6:44 pm   #37
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Default Re: Any record deck recommendations anyone?

thanks all, i think this post can be terminated as i have an idea of what i want to do.
rob.
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Old 3rd Aug 2020, 8:40 pm   #38
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Default Re: Any record deck recommendations anyone?

Do let us all know afterwards. It's always interesting to see how things turn out

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Old 7th Aug 2020, 9:53 am   #39
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hi, i am waiting for a bush srp 31c,autoslim deck to arrive i have a few possibilities to explore,
output one channel to radio for stereo sound
combine channels for output to radio
fit bluetooth, i made a module ,transformer,diodes, inductor,caps,reg,bt module
and a lm386 that works well into pu of radio.
oh, and get the deck to work.
Rob.
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