The Phone Book.

[G6Tanuki]

I wouldn't normally listen to BBC Radio4, and especially not the "whingers and losers" consumer-program "You and Yours", but a friend pointed out to me that last week it had an item on the BT Phone Book - which I listened to on BBC Sounds [or BBC Zounds as a Devonian acquaintance pronounces it].

The main drift of the item was that the phone book has become a vastly slimmed-down thing compared with its heyday in the 60s and 70s when being able to tear one in half with your bare hands was seen as a sign of strength. They said that with everyone having mobiles, and the growing interest in personal privacy causing more people who still have a landline choosing not to be listed in the phone book, a couple of people in the feature asked "just what is the point of the phone book?" and I totally agree, not having had my mane listed in it for decades and not using the landline since my mother [who was the only ever person who ever called me on it] died last decade.

Genealogists, apparently, like phone-books as they can link a person to a particular address at a particular date.

I guess the Phone Book as an idea is ultimately doomed.

Likewise - whatever became of Yellow Pages, the Phone Book's erstwhile [and similarly thick] companion? I eemember back in time you'd see plumbers/builders vans with stickers on them saying "Find us in Yellow Pages". These days they all say "Follow us on Facebook.

It was something that could be done when we had just one telephone service, these days (what with the internet and such) a bit redundant. I still have a landline and not a mobile. I have yet to find a "Kindle Edition" of the Phone Book

The trick to tearing the Phone Book in half is to dry it (airing cupboard for a few days) and start at the binding with a good bend.

[Uncle Bulgaria]

I would be interested to see a comparison between the environmental footprint of a landline network versus a mobile one. The huge complexity of the Internet, rare-earth metals in mobiles and very fast software and hardware upgrade cycles makes me think that it's rather unsustainable compared to an electromechanical relay system. I don't think the Internet will survive an apocalypse, though perhaps telegraphy would. I'm sure members here are using ancient telephones on the landline network daily!

We have no mobile signal and I have used the phone book to find a friend's parents' number in the last month! It can actually be easier to find tradespeople than on the web as there's less filler and less scope for SEO/keyword error. Looking at a list and flicking a page by hand is rather faster to my mind. We found a pest removal firm that way this summer.

[Richard_FM]

I can remember my Brother delivering Yellow Pages as a casual job in 1994 before going to University.

We had a garage with a big pile of them for a few days while he delivered them over a week or so.

[G6Tanuki]

Originally Posted by Uncle Bulgaria

The huge complexity of the Internet, rare-earth metals in mobiles and very fast software and hardware upgrade cycles makes me think that it's rather unsustainable compared to an electromechanical relay system..

Except we haven't had an "electromechanical relay-system" based landline network for something like 30 years.... the old AXE and "System X" BT network was electronic, and _that_ has largely been retired to be replaced by the equally all-electronic "21CN" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BT_21CN

Telephone-exchanges were once deafeningly-noisy, now all you hear is a qhiet whirring of fans echoing through the largely-empty spaces where previously Strowger. Crossbar etc once clattered.

Isn't progress great!

[G6Tanuki]

Thinking of phone-books, did anyone ever come across the French Minitel system? This was France Telecom's 1980s system intended to replace their equivalent of the phone-book/directory-enquiries/Pages-Jaunes but could also be used to do early versions of online shopping, check stock-prices, access a range of 'adult' services, an early version of online dating and a 'chat' service between customers in the same way as we now do via text-messages/Telegram/WhatsApp/MSN-Messenger/IRC.

I came across it when my aunt/uncle moved to the Franco-Swiss border area in the mid-1980s - and thought it rather intriguing.

The service closed down a decade or so back, having been obsoleted by the wider Internet and smartphones.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minitel

"In 1994 users made 1,913 million Minitel calls, used the system for 110 million hours, and spent 6.6 billion francs.[9] In 2005, there were 351 million calls for 18.5 million hours of connection, generating €206 million of revenue, of which €145 million were redistributed to 2,000 service providers (these numbers were declining at around 30% per year). There were still six million terminals owned by France Télécom, which had been left with their users in order to avoid recycling problems. "

[duncanlowe]

I'll be honest, I had no idea any of these still existed. Yellow pages is online. Thompson Local was another tradespeople directory. I can't remember last time we had any kind of directory delivered.

[Dave757]

Hi

I suppose the nearest you are going to get these days is BT's 118500
on the internet

Kind regards
Dave

[Alistair D]

On all of the 3 occasions that I changed service providers my number was automatically taken out of the phone book. On the first 2 changes I asked for my details to be reinstated. The last time I didn't bother.

I suspect that there quite a lot of subscribers, like me, who prefer the extra
little bit of anonymity. Perhaps some have not even checked their entry and do not realise they are no longer listed.

Al

[Terry_VK5TM]

Originally Posted by Alistair D

I suspect that there quite a lot of subscribers, like me, who prefer the extra little bit of anonymity. Perhaps some have not even checked their entry and do not realise they are no longer listed.Al

We used to have to pay extra every month not to be listed in the phone book although ultimately somebody would make a mistake and you appeared anyway.

Re the phonebooks, I don't remember the last time one was delivered (or in our case picked up from the local Post Office as no deliveries here) - at least 5-6 years.

And those places that still have a public telephone box/stand no longer have phonebooks attached.

[Richard_FM]

Originally Posted by G6Tanuki

Thinking of phone-books, did anyone ever come across the French Minitel system? This was France Telecom's 1980s system intended to replace their equivalent of the phone-book/directory-enquiries/Pages-Jaunes but could also be used to do early versions of online shopping, check stock-prices, access a range of 'adult' services, an early version of online dating and a 'chat' service between customers in the same way as we now do via text-messages/Telegram/WhatsApp/MSN-Messenger/IRC.

I came across it when my aunt/uncle moved to the Franco-Swiss border area in the mid-1980s - and thought it rather intriguing.

The service closed down a decade or so back, having been obsoleted by the wider Internet and smartphones.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minitel

"In 1994 users made 1,913 million Minitel calls, used the system for 110 million hours, and spent 6.6 billion francs.[9] In 2005, there were 351 million calls for 18.5 million hours of connection, generating €206 million of revenue, of which €145 million were redistributed to 2,000 service providers (these numbers were declining at around 30% per year). There were still six million terminals owned by France Télécom, which had been left with their users in order to avoid recycling problems. "

I think the Irish phone company had a trial of a Minitel like system but it didn't catch on.

One reason the system was popular in France was due to the terminals being government subsidised to increase computer literacy.

[hamid_1]

Here in the UK we had Prestel. It was a similar concept to the French Minitel system. You could look up telephone numbers by entering a name and address, or search business numbers by name or by category (e.g. plumbers). I remember using a Prestel terminal to find a phone number : that was back in 1992. Prestel was already quite old by then. It started in the late 1970s.

Prestel offered many other services but never really caught on for home use, due to the relatively high cost of the equipment and usage charges. There was no subsidy here, unlike in France where Minitel terminals were given free to subscribers. I believe one of the reasons why France Telecom offered free Minitel terminals instead of printed phone directories was to reduce the amount of paper consumption. Printing millions of phonebooks uses lots of paper and costs quite a lot too. Replacing them with Minitel was considered to be better for the environment and cheaper in the long run.

Although BT didn't give away free Prestel terminals, they have since given free access to the Phone Books on the web at https://www.thephonebook.bt.com/

Directory Enquiries once used to be free from BT, but became chargeable many years ago. Since the change from 192 to 118xxx, the charges have become astronomical - several pounds per minute in some cases. And the charge applies whether or not the requested number is found. A complete rip-off. I'm surprised that anyone still uses Directory Enquiries, apart from registered blind people who can still call it for free.

The phone books have certainly shrunk over the years. I haven't actually had a real landline phone* at my house since 2013 so the last BT Phone Book I have dates from 2012. Even then, around 50% of residential phone customers were unlisted, mainly to try and avoid nuisance telemarketing / scam phone calls. So the phone book (and directory enquiries) is really only useful for finding business numbers. *I have a VoIP phone number that appears to be a local landline number, however the Phone Book does not list VoIP or mobile phone numbers. Apparently the're not allowed to. This means I can't be in the Phone Book even if I wanted to be. Once more people get rid of their landline phones, I expect the Phone Book will shrink to the point where it's not worth printing anymore.

Meanwhile, other business directories like Yellow Pages and Thomson Local have quietly disappeared, replaced by online search engines. People now say "Google it!" instead of looking in a telephone directory. I'm surprised at the number of adverts which don't give a phone number or address, or even a website address - they just tell you to search for a phrase. Google has become so powerful it's scary.

[Uncle Bulgaria]

Originally Posted by G6Tanuki

Except we haven't had an "electromechanical relay-system" based landline network for something like 30 years.... the old AXE and "System X" BT network was electronic, and _that_ has largely been retired to be replaced by the equally all-electronic "21CN" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BT_21CN

Telephone-exchanges were once deafeningly-noisy, now all you hear is a qhiet whirring of fans echoing through the largely-empty spaces where previously Strowger. Crossbar etc once clattered.

Isn't progress great!

I can't say I believe in 'progress' and I'm not a telecommunications expert. My electromechanical reference was because I can't see how we can avoid a point where we have to exist with the level of technology of the early-mid C20th, as the processes are just about within the compass of hand-eye-machine-tool. The environmental (energy, water, raw materials, implicit high-tech equipment and networks) effects of ever-shrinking semiconductors and more manufacturing plants are obviously unsustainable. I can imagine solenoid coil-winding being the new gig economy!

[G6Tanuki]

I remember the "Thomson Local" directories - they had an orange cartoon cat as their 'mascot' in the ads. Dentons was another similar free local directory that ran in parallel. All now just memories.

At one time there were Fax directories published too. You had to pay to have your fax-number listed; doing so then opened you up to receiving loads of junk-faxes which were annoying because you had to pay for the thermal-paper.

Phone-books were at one time popular as a source of 'contacts' for market-research companies, but when I did a marketing course back in the late-1970s we were specifically warned against this because it 'skewed' the sample-demographic to exclude those who were not phone-owners. There's a lovely story [possibly apocryphal] about a market-research company asked to survey what people ate for breakfast. They grabbed the phone-book, and started dialling. The results soon showed an unexpected skew. Turns out the survey-person had opened the phone-book at the page containing all the Mac/Mc names in the area which explained the high preference for Porridge.

I can only once remember using Directory Enquiries - back in the 80s, from a phone-booth, when I wanted to find a taxi-company in a town about 30 miles away.. They gave me the number but only after I had replaced the receiver did I realise I had no clue what the area-code was for the town in question!

These days you'd just type "harrogate taxi" into a search-engine on your phone, and when a company showed up you'd tap the on-screen number and your phone would put you through.

I suspect that for quite a few people their last 'use' for the Phone Book/Yellow Pages was as something thick and stable to serve as a stand for their PC monitor!

[Richard_FM]

I used to know someone who was an operator for Directory Enquiries.

By this time the call centres could handle calls from anywhere in the country, but callers assumed they were speaking with their local exchange. This meant he often had to find the numbers for businesses in other parts of the country from just a description of they didn't know the name!

[bobsterkent]

Originally Posted by G6Tanuki

Except we haven't had an "electromechanical relay-system" based landline network for something like 30 years.... the old AXE and "System X" BT network was electronic, and _that_ has largely been retired to be replaced by the equally all-electronic "21CN" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BT_21CN

Telephone-exchanges were once deafeningly-noisy, now all you hear is a qhiet whirring of fans echoing through the largely-empty spaces where previously Strowger. Crossbar etc once clattered.

Isn't progress great!

I'm reading this sitting at my desk in the local Exchange. and if only i could hear something! About the noisest thing in the building (apart from a few engineers calling in) is the dry air pumps still pumping air into the main cables. All to be ripped out in 4 years time wehn we go 100% fibre..

[dominicbeesley]

With no power, water, internet for much of the weekend and yesterday (4g also down) a phone book would have been handy as the only means of communication was the land line. I'm sure Openreach will solve that issue by moving us all to voip ensuring a total blackout when communication is most important

[ms660]

Originally Posted by dominicbeesley

With no power, water, internet for much of the weekend and yesterday (4g also down) a phone book would have been handy as the only means of communication was the land line. I'm sure Openreach will solve that issue by moving us all to voip ensuring a total blackout when communication is most important

The fiber modem installed here by Openreach has battery backup (re-chargeable ones)

Lawrence.

[Junk Box Nick]

I miss Yellow Pages and the Thomson Local, though the drawback with Yellow Pages was that I happen to live in a corner where four areas meet and they had chosen to lump my town not with others in the local authority area but with those ten and twelve miles away. Thus I had a list of suppliers/tradespeople miles away but none a mile away. Fortunately the Thomson Local used a different geographical basis and was far more use. There was something likely to be reasonably solid about firms who paid for ads in the directories or even just qualified for a business listing.

I have never found the web much use for finding local tradespeople. Some sites have lots of stunning testimonials and five star ratings that their mates have posted (with the one star ratings are probably posted by their rivals) and anyone can put up a half-convincing website for near zip thanks to GoDaddy and the like. Having wasted my time with some who were clearly cowboys (fortunately, I figured this out during the first discussion) I have reverted to the very old-fashioned method of word of mouth referral.

As we continue into the age of GDPR and privacy in time folk will be astounded that there was ever printed directory that listed everyone’s name, address and phone number in the area.

Through the post yesterday a poor substitute for Yellow Pages, a bit bigger than A5 and 5/16th thick. Lots of businesses, very small type. I am not even going to bother tearing it in half.