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Vintage Audio (record players, hi-fi etc) Amplifiers, speakers, gramophones and other audio equipment. |
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21st Sep 2021, 2:13 pm | #1 |
Diode
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Heswall, Wirral, Merseyside
Posts: 9
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Garrard Turntable 18W motor info
Hi all, I am trying to replace a motor on a vintage Wem Copicat echo unit- it is a Garrard type 9 (or 6?) and has the rating of 0.1A and 18W (could be 16 but looks like 18W). My questions are:
1) Does anyone know what turntable might donate something similar- the ones I find on ebay all seem to be lower powered, e.g. 10W? 2) I could get the broken coil rewound - it looks like awg36 to me, with a DCR of 320ohm- can anyone suggest a rewinder-er? Many thanks Dave |
23rd Sep 2021, 4:13 pm | #2 |
Octode
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Welwyn Garden City, Herts. UK.
Posts: 1,906
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Re: Garrard Turntable 18W motor info
It's the speed that matters not the wattage. Any garrard 4 pole non synchronous motor should do. That looks like a Garrard RC 121 or 209, 210 type.
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23rd Sep 2021, 4:42 pm | #3 |
Diode
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Heswall, Wirral, Merseyside
Posts: 9
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Re: Garrard Turntable 18W motor info
Thanks or the info Peter.
I was hoping to maybe re-use the existing motor, so was trying to find windings of the same turns/length (and so DCR). 10w motors having different windings than 18w? I could try a slightly different 4 pole motor, as you say, but this would change the originality of this very rare amp. Cheers |
23rd Sep 2021, 5:03 pm | #4 |
Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Fife, Scotland, UK.
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Re: Garrard Turntable 18W motor info
Have a look carefully at the lamination stacks. Often the pole pieces (along with their 'shaded pole' section with its copper loop) can be removed. They may be pressed in, or they may have a locking rod pressed in.
If so, things can be dismantled and re-mantled afterwards, making re-winding the bobbins a bit of a doddle. Someone with a press and some steel blocks which can position the forces appropriately, or you can make some blocks (hacksaw and file and a spare afternoon) and a large bench vice can press things apart. David
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23rd Sep 2021, 5:21 pm | #5 |
Diode
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Heswall, Wirral, Merseyside
Posts: 9
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Re: Garrard Turntable 18W motor info
Thanks, Wrangler.
I have done all that and have the empty bobbin in front of me. I am just a bit reluctant to wind with the equipment I've got to get the right number of turns. I'm also not certain of the gauge.. |
23rd Sep 2021, 6:35 pm | #6 |
Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Wembley, Middlesex
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Re: Garrard Turntable 18W motor info
I would suggest you contact forum members Ed Dinning or Mike Barker, both of whom provide an excellent rewinding service.
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23rd Sep 2021, 7:30 pm | #7 |
Diode
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Heswall, Wirral, Merseyside
Posts: 9
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Re: Garrard Turntable 18W motor info
Thanks Maurice I will try that.
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23rd Sep 2021, 8:49 pm | #8 |
Diode
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Heswall, Wirral, Merseyside
Posts: 9
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Re: Garrard Turntable 18W motor info
Motor bobbin
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23rd Sep 2021, 9:00 pm | #9 |
Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2012
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Re: Garrard Turntable 18W motor info
When you have them rewound and you put the motor back together, you need to get the windings connected in series, and in the right phase for it to run. If it doesn't go, you'll have to reverse one winding.
A micrometer will give you the diameter over the lacquer. You can find the gauge of the base copper from wire tables. Good tables give you diameters over a few different grades of varnish, as well as numbers of turns per cross sectional area of bobbin. Garrard will have likely used a common SWG (Standard Wire Gauge) size. Don't get confused by AWG (American wire gauge) which is close, but a little smaller gauge number for gauge number. Just enough difference to spoil things. AWG seems to get a lot of mention over here, but Garrard will have used SWG sizes, probably bought from BICC who were dominant suppliers of the day. Anyway, Ed or Mike will sort it for you. David David
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Can't afford the volcanic island yet, but the plans for my monorail and the goons' uniforms are done |
23rd Sep 2021, 9:56 pm | #10 |
Diode
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Heswall, Wirral, Merseyside
Posts: 9
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Re: Garrard Turntable 18W motor info
All great info David, thanks.
Yes I've messaged Ed and I'll send some of the original wire and he can match for best. I did note the original direction so hopefully I will get that right first time! |
23rd Sep 2021, 11:11 pm | #11 |
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Mareeba, North Queensland, Australia
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Re: Garrard Turntable 18W motor info
Its pretty easy if a little time consuming but:
Cut ALL the wires right through on the bobbin, being carefull not to damage the bobbin/former. Remove all the wires from the bobbin and simply count the ends of the wire. That gives you the number of turns required. A block of wood cut to fit inside the bobbin and say a 3/8" bolt through the centre of the wood, and you have your winding set up. Measure the wire as others have described, and but the same. Weigh the dead coil wire and you will know how much to buy. I wouldnt be buying much more than you need. Winding insulated wire is EXPENSIVE !!. I use a hand drill ( eggbeater style) for simple jobs like this. Measure the ratio of your hand drill, so that instead of counting the bobbin turns, simply count the crank handle turns. "Most" hand drills are about 3.5:1 Ratio. Measure this accurately so you dont end up underwinding or overwinding. Happy winding . But somebody with a winding machine will take ten minutes to make another coil. Sorry about the long winded explanation. Joe |
24th Sep 2021, 8:50 am | #12 |
Diode
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Heswall, Wirral, Merseyside
Posts: 9
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Re: Garrard Turntable 18W motor info
Cheers Joe, I'm going to let the pros handle this one, but I may well try my hand on some old busted transformers!
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24th Sep 2021, 10:19 am | #13 |
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Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Fife, Scotland, UK.
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Re: Garrard Turntable 18W motor info
Count the teeth on the crown wheel and the pinion of your hand drill and get the ratio exact.
David
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Can't afford the volcanic island yet, but the plans for my monorail and the goons' uniforms are done |
24th Sep 2021, 3:39 pm | #14 |
Tetrode
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Mumbai, India.
Posts: 98
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Re: Garrard Turntable 18W motor info
A tape counter from a junked deck could be repurposed as a turns counter.
Regards,
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Anwesh |
18th Oct 2021, 7:14 pm | #15 |
Diode
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Heswall, Wirral, Merseyside
Posts: 9
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Re: Garrard Turntable 18W motor info
I wanted to say thanks to everyone who helped with this. Ed did a sterling job on the rewind, so the original motor is up and running.
Just as well as I never did find a replacement of the same power! Cheers |