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Old 20th Aug 2013, 5:47 am   #1
Martin G7MRV
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Default Emley Moor Secret Cold War History

Perhaps of interest to some of you chaps, an article detailing secret cold war propaganda operations at Emley Moor

http://tx.mb21.co.uk/features/blue-aspidistra/
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Old 20th Aug 2013, 7:26 am   #2
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Default Re: Emley Moor Secret Cold War History

Reading down he article, it sounded awfully like a conspiracy theory.

The over-the-horizon propagation needed would make the signal very flakey and very easy to be jammed if any made it at all.

To get any chance, rather large antennae would be needed and the phased array would be needed to be phased in the horizontal plane which is difficult to hide on a vertical thing like a tower. There would probably need to be beam antennae of many elements and long booms pointing visibly in directions which might be a dead give-away.

Moving U-boat hulls across land to Emley would have aroused a lot of interest, and after the 1969 collapse the whole place was the subject of a lot of public interest. There were reporters all over the wreckage, and during the construction period, with a lot of people missing ITV and BBC2 there was a lot of interest in progress. Replacing a submarine hull at the same time? Yeah. Bringing in a closed container big enough to move one would really get the locals interested.

Having lots of big enough apertures up one 'side' of the stressed concrete shell would seriously weaken it.

There were numerous ancient small collieries in the area, all abandoned. The large, operating one was Shuttle Eye by the juction, now roundabout, at Grange Moor. I assume that mine workings, since the first mast went up, were kept well away from the mast because any subsidence would be a lot more unpopular than the usual cracks in houses or undulations in roads.

THe idea of a tunnel to Holme Moss got me laughing. The text at the bottom of the article makes the point about ventilation. Ventilation in coal bearing areas is crucial to avoid the risk of methane explosion. Underground tunnels need constant pumping and ventilation.

Holme Moss (the name is a clue) is high on a peat moor. Any tunnelling here would need to be deep, and so into the solid rock. Anyone who could have driven an Emley to Holme Moss tunnel could have polished off the channel tunnel for dessert. Doing it in secrecy as well...


As a major communications point, I would expect there to be plans for emergency/war operations at Emley, but more for distributing information/orders/propaganda or whatever to the service area population. I would also expect the Russians to have considered it an important target to create disorganisation. I wouldn't be too surprised at spook stuff at Emley, but I don't think it's that.

David
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Old 20th Aug 2013, 8:14 am   #3
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Default Re: Emley Moor Secret Cold War History

Now I don't know for definite BUT I think I'm going to put this one in the same category as the explanation for the NTSC field frequency being 59.94Hz because continued erosion at Niagara meant that the water flow had decreased, consequently the generators were having trouble reaching 60Hz so, as the TV field was mains locked, a compromise was made.

I'm further convinced I shall be riding on Radio Wrangler's monorail before anything 'concrete' about the 'blue aspidistra' is unveiled, however, may I make a couple of observations. 1) nearly all the erection work on the temporary mast at Emley was carried out by Eastern bloc workers (mostly Polish) and Poland was then firmly in the Russian sphere of influence; why would government allow a potential 'nest' of spies on such a sensitive site? 2) the collapse of the steel mast and constuction of the replacement tower did, as has been said have much publicity - people 'nosing' all over plus several film crews documenting progress on an almost daily basis; how did the cameramen manage to keep those submarine hulls out of shot? 3) Holme Moss is a far more 'enigmatic' construction; anyone who has visited it must surely have noticed what looks little more than a large bungalow at a distance on the surface, upon entry becomes a labyrinthine 'Tardis' of a place where Dr. Strangelove could have plotted Armageddon in complete comfort ( well, BBC 1950s 'spartan' comfort ).
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Old 20th Aug 2013, 8:55 am   #4
Martin G7MRV
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Default Re: Emley Moor Secret Cold War History

I will presume these posts are in gest and you both did actually read the last part of the article? I presume also that youve both made the connection between my username on here and the author? ;-)

Actually, all the horizontal polarised antennas for UHF on the tower now are all physically vertical. The temporary mast was actually Swedish and put up by us, the tower itself was built by the Poles.

Anyway, I've just spent 12h sat below it, and have to go back again for another 12 later, so I'm off to bed.
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Old 20th Aug 2013, 9:06 am   #5
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Default Re: Emley Moor Secret Cold War History

I visited Emley, Holme Moss and Pole Moor in the period concerned. The cavernous halls at Pole Moor and Holme Moss were gorgeous. With the old transmitters, the Ruston Diesels and all the motor-generators they were shrines to high engineering.

Dad came home one night "It's ****** thick out there... can't even see the lights at Emley" We were watching BBC1 with the set switched back to 405 lines and an old set-top aerial plugged in.

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Old 20th Aug 2013, 9:16 am   #6
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Default Re: Emley Moor Secret Cold War History

Of course, if you'd chosen Holme Moss, Martin, anything underground would have NEEDED U-boat hulls, but they'd have needed anchoring to bedrock to stop them popping up to the surface.

This is a game like Twister. We only have to get the Bermuda Triangle and Area 51 involved to have a real winner.

The danger with such a jest is that once the conspiracy theorists latch onto it, it becomes unsinkable. The more it is denied, the truer it becomes.

There used to be a guy on the internet in the '90s, he swore he originated the green pen for improving CDs as a joke.

David
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Old 20th Aug 2013, 9:49 am   #7
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Default Re: Emley Moor Secret Cold War History

Subterranea Britannica is dare I say a 'mine' of info on bunkers & cold war stuff - I don't know if the Emley bit has made it to folklore there yet.

I did say I'd be riding Radio Wrangler's monorail before anything concrete would be revealed, however I am taking the precaution of having my uniform pressed.

To be serious though I've always thought Holme Moss did look a bit 'cold war-ish'. There may have been nothing more sinister than the fact it was a major Tx and would, should the ballon have gone up, been a major target; serving as it did a large chunk of the population in the 1950s. I would believe there could be some security 'annexe' at H.M. but I don't know. There are two now decommisioned secret facilities in Yorks of which I do know (one of which I lived over - but didn't know until I was moving out) but I'm afraid I daren't tell.

And just in case all this info is a double bluff I'm going to go through my copies of 27 Days Before the Mast and Tale of a Tower frame by frame to see how many submarines I can spot.
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Old 20th Aug 2013, 10:46 am   #8
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Default Re: Emley Moor Secret Cold War History

Complete Bunk!
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Old 20th Aug 2013, 11:42 am   #9
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Default Re: Emley Moor Secret Cold War History

I'm glad I had decided that it was a tall story before I got to the admission at the end!

Using SpE as a broadcast method was the giveaway; up to then it was just about plausible as an example of Cold War paranoia combined with military incompetence.

Well done! Your creative writing course fees were not wasted.
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Old 20th Aug 2013, 11:57 am   #10
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Default Re: Emley Moor Secret Cold War History

Quote:
Originally Posted by HamishBoxer View Post
Complete Bunk!
Nah...

It *must* be true. I read it on the internet...
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Old 20th Aug 2013, 6:40 pm   #11
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Default Re: Emley Moor Secret Cold War History

Well Martin I thought it was an interesting fabrication, is that a pun?]. It's certainly based on what is now Vintage Technology. I'm quite interested in some of this kind of stuff. E Moor must surely have been in line for some emergency role at that time? I'm also interested in the Bible but not religious so I try and be open about technology. Remember the C Theory that all our e-mails are accessible. It's real on the front page today. Nobody thought 3D printing was real until recently.
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Old 20th Aug 2013, 7:26 pm   #12
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Default Re: Emley Moor Secret Cold War History

Just checked my watch, notebook and smartphone - all are sync'd to GPS and none of them are telling me that it's the 1st of April.

Unless of course the entire Global Positioning System is a conspiracy and the reality is that D.A.B. is actually locked to an ex-British Railways "Gents of Leicester" Master Clock around the back of the D.F. rack [Deferred Facilities] in the crypt at Holme Moss (and closely guarded by the Holme Moss Crypt Monster ... yes, it exists ... I've seen one of its eggs)
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Old 20th Aug 2013, 8:01 pm   #13
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Default Re: Emley Moor Secret Cold War History

Hi just a quick question what was at pole more then never heard of that one thanks hannah
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Old 20th Aug 2013, 8:30 pm   #14
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Default Re: Emley Moor Secret Cold War History

Maybe i should have said,Complete Bunker!

PS I agree all emails are certainly readable by who ever.
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Old 20th Aug 2013, 9:07 pm   #15
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Default Re: Emley Moor Secret Cold War History

If a conspiracy theorist in that area had forgotten their roll of tinfoil, would they be "on Emley Moor bah't 'at?"
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Old 20th Aug 2013, 9:19 pm   #16
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Default Re: Emley Moor Secret Cold War History

Quote:
Originally Posted by hannahs radios View Post
Hi just a quick question what was at pole more then never heard of that one thanks hannah
'Pole Moor' is the local name for Moorside Edge (BBC 'North Regional' medium wave transmitter, originally built in 1931). I worked there during several secondments between 1982 - 1985. See my anecdote on the mb21 site:

http://tx.mb21.co.uk/gallery/moorsid...side-edge2.php

Others on this forum may also know of it as Slaithwaite ("Sla'wit").
Regards
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Last edited by Nymrod121; 20th Aug 2013 at 9:32 pm. Reason: added mb21 link
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Old 20th Aug 2013, 9:20 pm   #17
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Default Re: Emley Moor Secret Cold War History

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex728 View Post
If a conspiracy theorist in that area had forgotten their roll of tinfoil, would they be "on Emley Moor bah't 'at?"
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Old 20th Aug 2013, 9:56 pm   #18
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Default Re: Emley Moor Secret Cold War History

Unfortunately the mods have now received a D Notice. There are no secret bunkers at Emley Moor or anywhere else and never have been. Any forum member suggesting otherwise will be banned, quite apart from spending 9 hours being interrogated whenever they fly to anywhere from Heathrow Airport.

(Will this do? Please don't lock me up in Guantanamo.)
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