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Vintage Computers Any vintage computer systems, calculators, video games etc., but with an emphasis on 1980s and earlier equipment.

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Old 8th Mar 2022, 1:08 pm   #81
alan c jones
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Default Re: The PICL V2 - a development of Karen's 2007 original

Hi Phil

This is my first post and it is really to pay my compliments to Phil.g
I have recently completed the Picl2 project designed by Phil and have to say what a great intro' to Pic projects (this is my first)this is . As an old Timer who built one of the original MK14's (a hundred years ago!) this has really caught my imagination and I found the hardware build (with phil's pcb) simple.

I've not yet seen such well presented documentation of any project of this type before , so concise and informative and although I did ask Phil a couple of questions ,he with great patience answered them in a very helpful way.

So Guys try this project ...I LOVE IT !!

ATB

Alan
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Old 8th Mar 2022, 4:40 pm   #82
Phil__G
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Default Re: The PICL V2 - a development of Karen's 2007 original

Wow thank you Alan, really all credit for the project goes to Karen, I think she'd be quite chuffed to see the PICL still developing 15 years later Re the documentation, its not only something I enjoy doing but an essential personal reminder when, six months later, I haven't the faintest idea what I did or how it works
The repeated Covid lockdowns have been awful but an opportunity to really get stuck into some interrupted project work, chip supply permitting - PICLV2, a few Z80 boards, some with CP/M, a Cosmac Elf, and an own-design FHSS R/C system that is all I fly now!
Cheers and a sincere thanks again for the nice comments
Phil


.

Last edited by Phil__G; 8th Mar 2022 at 4:47 pm.
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Old 8th Mar 2022, 4:53 pm   #83
SiriusHardware
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Default Re: The PICL V2 - a development of Karen's 2007 original

The original MK14 manual has often been criticised as too opaque for absolute beginners to be able to understand, so I wonder if we should persuade Phil to write the MK14 manual, MK2, for all those people now building Orton PIC14s and MK14 replicas.
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Old 8th Mar 2022, 6:03 pm   #84
Phil__G
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Default Re: The PICL V2 - a development of Karen's 2007 original

To quote John, "You cannot be Sirius...."
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Old 8th Mar 2022, 11:24 pm   #85
SiriusHardware
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Default Re: The PICL V2 - a development of Karen's 2007 original

And welcome to Alan C Jones as well, nice to have another old MK4teenie on the forum.
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Old 9th Mar 2022, 12:15 am   #86
Slothie
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Default Re: The PICL V2 - a development of Karen's 2007 original

Bit of a tangent for this post....
I had an idea to start writing a 𝖻̶𝗈̶𝗈̶𝗄̶ er pamphlet on SC/MP programming as an extension of my Issue IV documentation but I kind of didn't get beyond some rough notes. There are some definite "templates" that work to allow you to write longer assembler programs, using a stack for subroutine calls for instance, and this information seems to be scattered about many different official and unofficial publications. I kind of got distracted from it, its about ten down on my "almost in progress" list....

I'm starting chemo this week so I might have a lot of time for the next month when writing might be the most I'll have the energy to do so perhaps it will get bumped up that list.

Back on topic....
It has to be said that writing a program of any complexity is probably best done in a higher level language like NIBL, which I suspect is why NatSem produced it and passed it about, in an attempt to make it easier to make control systems and thus sell chips to their intended market. This is one reason I was looking at making a NIBL converter for the MK14, although making a proper NIBL machine or the PICL is probably a saner option.

I built one of Phil's original PICL boards and its fun to play with, and having easy access to the LEDs and sense ports makes trying stuff out child's play.
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Old 9th Mar 2022, 2:40 am   #87
Mark1960
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Default Re: The PICL V2 - a development of Karen's 2007 original

I think its harder to put NIBL on an MK14 than to build a stand alone NIBL machine. It probably wouldn’t need much higher chip count than PICL. INS8060, IS61C1024, 74HCT193 as address latch and address decoder and 2732 or SST39SF0x0, maybe an inverter for the serial interface.
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Old 16th Mar 2022, 3:35 am   #88
Michael - K8LH
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Default Re: The PICL V2 - a development of Karen's 2007 original

Phil (and group):

It seems that upgrading the CPU on the 'standard' PICL 8K board from a 16F877 or '877A to a more capable (and less expensive) 16F18877 might be difficult for some people so I spent several hours over the past few days designing and testing an Arduino Nano based programmer. Basically, you can load a 'sketch' that contains the PIC firmware image onto a relatively inexpensive ($5) Nano or ($10) Uno clone and use it to program the 16F18877 with just five jumper wires and a 100-nF bypass capacitor.

I need to clean up the Arduino sketch but I would be happy to share it in its current messy state with anyone who would like to "road test" the new CPU on Phil's 'standard' 8K PCB. Programmer wiring diagram is attached below.

Cheerful regards, Mike
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Last edited by Michael - K8LH; 16th Mar 2022 at 3:49 am.
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Old 16th Mar 2022, 12:03 pm   #89
Phil__G
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Default Re: The PICL V2 - a development of Karen's 2007 original

On Mikes behalf (he's too modest!) I should add that the new 18877 firmware is superb, with some very clever enhancements, I wont spoil the surprise but its well worth the upgrade. Mine has been running various test bits & bobs for a week now with no problems whatsoever, and Mikes 'extras' make the PICL even more practical, and much cheaper to build

The 18877 is pin compatible with the old 877 so its no more than a chip-swap, but remember to use an 8mhz crystal, I forgot and left the 20mhz in place and had some very strange baud rates! At 8mhz the emulation is over 50% faster than the 20mhz 877, actually running internally at 32mhz.

I know from email exchanges with Mike, some burning the midnight oil, that he's put a lot of work into this and I'd encourage all SC/MP fans to please give it a try!

If anyone in the UK wants a pre-programmed 18877, I'd be happy to do them at cost, but Mikes Nano idea is so easy, I doubt this will be necessary. Its a brief one-off use, so once the 18877 is programmed, the Nano is free to return to the parts drawer.

Cheers
Phil

Last edited by Phil__G; 16th Mar 2022 at 12:27 pm.
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Old 16th Mar 2022, 3:45 pm   #90
Michael - K8LH
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Default Re: The PICL V2 - a development of Karen's 2007 original

Thank you for the kind words, Phil. You should certainly pat yourself on the back for your clever contributions to Karen's wonderful project.

I'm hoping most of us already have an Arduino Uno or Nano at hand. I had purchased a few Nano clones several years ago when they only cost $1.75 each, including shipping. More recently I purchased a handful of Nano clones with micro-USB connector for just less than $4 a piece (landed).

Should we consider two Arduino Programmer 'sketches'? One for an 8-MHz crystal and one for a 20-MHz crystal?

Take care. Stay safe. Mike
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Last edited by Michael - K8LH; 16th Mar 2022 at 4:00 pm.
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Old 16th Mar 2022, 4:12 pm   #91
Phil__G
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Default Re: The PICL V2 - a development of Karen's 2007 original

or have it ask via the serial monitor?
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