Smiths No 1 movement in an unusual case

[Phil G4SPZ]

I have just finished restoring this rather attractive clock fitted with a Smith No 1 synchronous movement. The front pivot hole on the first (fibre gear) arbor was badly worn, causing noisy running. I rebushed the hole, a tricky procedure as the pivot is only 0.6mm in diameter, using a 0.6mm ID x 1.75mm OD tapered brass bush. The motor stator tested out perfectly on the Megger, and with a new flex fitted, the clock runs perfectly.

I am impressed with this movement, the first Smiths No 1 I have dealt with. It must have been very expensive to manufacture due to the precision nature of the movement, with no less than four stages of conventional reduction gearing, and the Bakelite case which houses the rear rotor bearing. The movement itself is aligned very accurately with the Bakelite housing, by three stepped-diameter brass inserts. This movement was introduced in 1931 and was superseded very soon afterwards, in 1933 by the “de-luxe” movement, which was of a different design using worm gearing. No doubt this was cheaper to manufacture.

The only issue is, I can’t find anything like this clock in Barrie Smith’s book! Could it be a ‘marriage clock’?

Phil

[Nickthedentist]

Very nice! I’ve got several clocks with this movement, and whilst some are dead quiet, and be or two are rather noisy, presumably because of wear.

The worst thing about some of these is the bayonet-fitting bezel which can be a pain to fit, especially if someone has been heavy handed first.

Great though Barrie’s book is, it’s far from a complete catalogue of all Smiths’ clocks, so I reckon your clock is original.

[Phil G4SPZ]

Hi Nick, and thanks for your thoughts. The method of fixing the assembled movement and bezel into the case is a bit odd, because it’s clearly been ‘got-at’ before. There is a cast metal ring behind the chrome bezel; the movement slides into the ring from the front, backwards, and is held in place by three machine screws that pass through the ring and engage with three small curved metal retainers that hold the Bakelite case in the ring. Annoyingly, two of these screws are missing and they’re an odd thread, slightly smaller than 6BA and I can’t find anything to fit. The cast ring is then a friction fit inside the band behind the chrome bezel. The whole thing is, I think, held in place from inside the case by three screws and metal clips. All are missing.

If you could possibly let me see inside one of your original clocks with this movement, I can potentially fabricate something that will do the job, and I shall be forever grateful!

On my example, the pivot hole had worn to the extent that the teeth of the fibre gear were rubbing on the adjacent arbor, causing the noise. You can actually see where the arbor has been polished by this rubbing action!

As for Barrie’s book, it is remarkable that any manufacturer would have produced so many different models of clock, so it’s no surprise that a few are missing. I’m hoping that Smiths enthusiasts on this Forum and also at the NAWCC might be able to recognise it. Smiths certainly made some elegant models. I’m on the lookout for a chiming example or one of their pre-war long case clocks, if I can persuade SWMBO that is!

Kind regards,

[Nickthedentist]

Phil, here are some notes that I jotted down for my own benefit when I last serviced one of these movements. I thought they might be worth sharing here, but please excuse any errors, misunderstanding and wrong terminology.

SMITH'S MkI MOVEMENT NOTES

i.e. rear rotor bearing mounted in Bakelite drum, face-on disk seconds telltale (usually below hand arbors).

Hand set/start knob is LH threaded, i.e. turn clockwise to remove. Have to loosen tiny (10BA?) grubscrew first. Re-fit knob before hands and dial fitted, as need to hold wheel on other end of hand-set spindle still with thumb tip to stop spindle rotating. Don't screw on too far, or else spindle won't be allowed to be fully depressed, meaning that starting mechanism won't work, and hand-set wheel won't engage.

When disassembling, don't lose floating end plate, which forms part of rotor's front bearing.

Don’t bend arbor when removing seconds tell-tale disc.

If remove pinion from centre-wheel arbor, the centre wheel might shift on the arbor meaning that the back of the arbor doesn't reach the back plate or that the two plates don't fit together on their pillars properly. So, check it's OK before fitting the 1st - 4th wheels, and if necessary, move it along the arbor until it's just touching the back of the front plate. Then re-fit the pinion and carry on.

Don’t overlook large, thin washer under the wheel on the front of the front plate, which drives the cannon pinion(?)/hours.

Lubricate rotor bearings with synthetic car oil. Smear teeth of rotor and 1st (fibre) wheel with thin grease, but not too much on latter or else spills onto adjacent (2nd wheel’s) arbor.

Ensure rear rotor bearing is pushed fully home into the Bakelite drum (from the inside), otherwise the rotor will sit too far forwards causing front spring to be excessively loaded. The back end of a screwdriver handle is OK for this.

Also check that the three threaded brass bushes which retain the plates in the drum are firm and can’t be pulled out of the Bakelite. If loose, re-fix with Superglue.

When re-fitting plates/wheels into Bakelite casing, fit rotor to wheels/plates first, then insert whole lot into drum, ensuring that hand set spindle and rotor rear arbor slip into their repsective holes. Put a little grease on hand-set spindle where it passes through the Bakelite case. Ensure each brass fixing bush’s “nipple” goes through the holes in the rear plate, otherwise wheel assembly will sit too far forwards with result that dial won’t sit on its ledge properly and hand-set won’t work (whatever position knob is fitted in).

With insertion movements, don’t forget copper spring washer between cannon pinion and back of dial.

[Nickthedentist]

And this is what you normally find round the back:

[Nickthedentist]

Final thoughts for today: I know that Ferranti definitely marketed a synchronous, drum-type movement, with bezel, dial and hands, but without case. These often turn up in much older cases, presumably as a result of someone deciding to modernise a tired, old-fashioned clock in the 1930s.

But I'm not sure that Smiths did.

[Phil G4SPZ]

Thanks for those notes, Nick. They pretty well reflect my own mental notes, apart from that when reassembling, I put the rotor into the back bearing first, then placed the movement into the case, guiding the rotor front pivot into its bearing, only applying oil and fitting the front end cap once the movement was fixed in the case, but I don’t think it’s critical in any way.

I was previously a Ferranti enthusiast, but I have got an equal number of Smiths and they all seem very well engineered. T R Robinson is also very complimentary about them in ‘Modern Clocks’ and gives full servicing details too.

Thanks for the photo, by the way. My movement is fixed into its case in a different manner from yours.

[brenellic2000]

I researched and wrote a history of Smiths. The pre-war clock business is a nightmare from vague entries in the 'HJ', to confusing model codes and stated dimensions, few of which agree! It didn't help that Smiths bought so many clock (and clock-case) companies... though none produced small electric clocks.

I can recommend 'Clockmaking in England and Wales in the 20th Century' (Glanville/Wilmuth) and 'Modern Electric clocks' (Philpott) as helpful guides.

[PsychMan]

I have one of these ready to work on, different bakelite case though. I'll have to try and get some pictures up

The rotating disk that tells you the clock is running seems to have very fragile paint on it. A few pieces have simply fallen off with no help at all, so I'm trying to find a solution for that before proceeding.

The push start knob had seized completely and needed lots of patience along with plus gas and heat to free it.

The hands were as if they had been super glued on, I've never seen anything quite like it. I had to again use a heat gun, with some plumbers heat mat to protect the face. Despite all of this and being very patient, one hand did break in the process


Adam

[Nickthedentist]

Originally Posted by brenellic2000

I researched and wrote a history of Smiths.

What's it called, please?

I can recommend 'Clockmaking in England and Wales in the 20th Century' (Glanville/Wilmuth)...

One of the best horology books I've ever bought. Wonderful photos and text. Nothing specific on electric clocks though, sadly.

[brenellic2000]

S Smith & Sons Ltd 'The Golden Years' - Brenelltape.co.uk. Part One: Timepieces, Part Two: Industrial, Motoring, Aviation, K&H....

[Phil G4SPZ]

Why are clock books so expensive, I wonder? Philpott is anything from just under £30 to over £55. Glanville & Wolmuth is recently published and around £40. I suppose these books will never go out of date…

[Nickthedentist]

I think £40 for G&W is well worth it. It's a big hardback, thick and full-colour throughout.

There's a limited marked for clock books, hence the higher per-unit price, I suspect.

[Nickthedentist]

Philpott is here as a PDF, free of charge: https://clockdoc.org/admin.aspx?moid=57422

[Phil G4SPZ]

That is really helpful, Nick, thank you very much

[TonyDuell]

Originally Posted by Nickthedentist

Philpott is here as a PDF, free of charge: https://clockdoc.org/admin.aspx?moid=57422

Thanks for that, there are other interesting books on that site too.

[GroovyG]

Originally Posted by Phil G4SPZ

.... I suppose these books will never go out of date…

That's provided they continue to keep good time.

[Phil G4SPZ]

I've skimmed through Philpott, and whilst it contains a vast amount of general information, together with some nice drawings, it has gone out of date. This, the second edition, was released in 1935, and consequently fails to cover a number of electric clock developments and movements that came along in later years. That said, it was an enjoyable read.

[stevenkw2t]

Originally Posted by Phil G4SPZ

I've skimmed through Philpott, and whilst it contains a vast amount of general information, together with some nice drawings, it has gone out of date. This, the second edition, was released in 1935, and consequently fails to cover a number of electric clock developments and movements that came along in later years. That said, it was an enjoyable read.

The 4th edition, 1949, is available here

[Phil G4SPZ]

Wow! Excellent! Many thanks for that link.