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Old 1st Jul 2019, 5:03 pm   #41
Edward Huggins
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Default Re: Ceramic and Crystal cartridge specs.

This is a fairly early stereo cartridge and it's most likely it will be a crystal type (as distinct from ceramic) medium output type at c.250mV.
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Old 1st Jul 2019, 5:59 pm   #42
Alf Fisher
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Default Re: Ceramic and Crystal cartridge specs.

Thanks Edward,
Excuse my ignorance but is that 250mV RMS or pk-pk

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Old 1st Jul 2019, 10:21 pm   #43
John10b
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Default Re: Ceramic and Crystal cartridge specs.

From what I have read it is customary to use rms.
There has been much very interesting discussions on the subject, worth taking a look.
Cheers
John
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Old 8th Sep 2019, 8:15 am   #44
Notarfff
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Default Re: Ceramic and Crystal cartridge specs.

Hi, with reference to the cartridge data list collated by Ben, I was just curious about the mV output?
Iím a newbie, and it has been suggested, and Iím not questioning the suggestion , that a replacement for my (probably faulty) ronette 105 would be a BSR SC11/12 , but I notice thereís a big difference in output, is this material?
Of course, right now, my HMV 2010 is not working properly so a replacement is required anyway and it may be this in the only option, and thatís fair enough, but like I say, curious?
If anyone can educate me?
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Old 8th Sep 2019, 1:26 pm   #45
Edward Huggins
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Default Re: Ceramic and Crystal cartridge specs.

Yes, there is some variation in mV output between the BSR SC11M, SC12M and SC12H ceramic cartridges. The H version being the highest.
I suggested these because these are the easiest to source here in the UK, have the correct mounting bracket and have LPS/78 styli. It depends what you can find that is still available. There is very little availability of any other type except for the aforementioned Ronette clones or the more expensive Sontone 9TA/HC.
If you don't want to pay much and are never going to play 78s, then go for the already mentioned Red Chinese Ceramic in a mounting bracket for just £12.00 or so.
Let us know how you get on with what you can find....
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Old 9th Sep 2019, 1:50 am   #46
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Default Re: Ceramic and Crystal cartridge specs.

If your amp is integral to your turntable, as in
All one original unit, the cart output may be
Critical, esp. If the amp is a valve amp.
But if your amp is a digital conversion type,
Accepts an analog signal, and converts it to
Digital, my best guess is that turntable output
Voltage is not critical. Phono in on such amps
Must meet universal standards and that means
A wide range of voltages. The volume adj. Is the
Compensator.
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Old 9th Sep 2019, 2:15 am   #47
oldboy1
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Default Re: Ceramic and Crystal cartridge specs.

I was surfing around and found a cart vendor
That listed the original cart for several
Bsr models. It wrote the data down, and posted
It to this thread, but it didnt appear, and now
I cant find it. I will search on line for it agai and
Try once more, soon.
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Old 10th Sep 2019, 11:26 pm   #48
oldboy1
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Default Re: Ceramic and Crystal cartridge specs.

The source for the following is mantra audio.
Cart sc11m with stylus st17 is compatable with
The following turntable bsr models.
2000X, 2000AX, 4800BX, 4800X, 6500X, 8500F,
C-123R, C-129R, C141R, C197, CH0571, P231,
P268, RT521, RT529.
I hope this information is helpful to anyone who
Is looking to find replacement carts for a vintage
Bsr changer. These are the models that shipped
With this cart. Does anyone know if there are
Other cart models that match this one?3
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Old 11th Sep 2019, 9:16 am   #49
ben
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Default Re: Ceramic and Crystal cartridge specs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldboy1 View Post
The source for the following is mantra audio.
Cart sc11m with stylus st17 is compatable with
The following turntable bsr models...These are the models that shipped
With this cart.
Sorry to rain on anyone's parade, but I must point out a few things.
The problem with such information is that it does not tell the whole story. Although those decks above were undoubtedly supplied with the SC11, they were also supplied with others (or none) - The c123, for example, came with the SX6 as well. There were also production changes and OEM considerations.

In any case, when choosing a replacement cart for whatever BSR turntable, the most important factor, after the mounting, is the output, which must match the amp or system the player is used with. One cannot assume that the cartridges on that list, which does not take such factors into account, will be a drop-in replacement.
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Old 16th Sep 2019, 3:07 am   #50
oldboy1
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Default Re: Ceramic and Crystal cartridge specs.

Ben, thank you for this additional information. I generally
Agree with it. It is a good idea to obtain a copy
Of the amp spec if one can be found. Also, the
Tuner amp year of production has much to do
With what range of inputs the "phono in" jacks
Will accept. Protocalls change over time. I was seeking to add a correlation
To your excelent thread, which is the best source
I have found on cart/stylus matchups, but does
Not yet include bsr model matches. No doubt my little
Contribution needs a great deal of expansion.
Form and fit, as well as function matter, and if as i have,
One aquires a changer in restorable condition, but missin
It's original cart, a source of information on a possible
Replacement or workable substitute is invaluable as you
Know. Any way, a huge attaboy to you for the work you
Are doing for fans of bsr record changers.
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Old 16th Nov 2020, 8:29 am   #51
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Default Re: Ceramic and Crystal cartridge specs.

Have added Points on Pickups booklet to this thread at Bens suggestion, thanks to WD.
John
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Old 16th Nov 2020, 9:51 am   #52
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Default Re: Ceramic and Crystal cartridge specs.

One of the listed ceramic cartridges survives with only a change of mounting bracket;
https://www.musonic.co.uk/index.php?...ducts_id=18712
I recently fitted one to a Garrard RC120 in an old player with EF89/EL84 amplifier and
the results are excellent at 6 grams tracking.
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Old 23rd Nov 2020, 1:08 am   #53
oldboy1
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Default Re: Ceramic and Crystal cartridge specs.

it has been a long busy year, but i have some good news.
i found a good ceramic cart for a low cost.
however, with low cost comes a few caviats.
1. the cart has flat pins, not round, so requires new
lugs on the pickup leads.
2. the cart is glued into the head, which makes
it a task to install without putting in new leads.
it is, P-169D Arista 1669 Astatic 419 Phono Cartridge
with Stylus EV 5573D BSR SC8H-2
i got it mail order from Scottsdale Az for such a low price
i went ahead and bought 2. the same source also sells lugs. i dont know if the
vintage radio policy allows me to tell the business
details? but they do accept postal money orders
which i like, as i do not use credit cards.
finally installed it, and it works well. had to clean my
old lps to get good tracking, but dont have a scale.
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Old 23rd Nov 2020, 8:47 am   #54
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Default Re: Ceramic and Crystal cartridge specs.

PIezo electric cartridges are getting hard to find and the varieties are narrowing as stocks of the BSR ones are dwindling. So news of another supplier with stocks could help some people.

Storage in Scottsdale ought to be safe for those with hygroscopic crystal elements. (I've been to Scottsdale. The high temperatures were made bearable by rather low humidity.)

David
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Old 23rd Nov 2020, 12:48 pm   #55
John10b
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Default Re: Ceramic and Crystal cartridge specs.

I wonder how it would work with a simple EL84 amp playing an LP. It would been interesting to know.
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Old 30th Jan 2021, 1:04 pm   #56
Restoration73
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Default Re: Ceramic and Crystal cartridge specs.

More data added
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Old 14th Nov 2021, 9:20 am   #57
HoverJohn
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Default Re: Ceramic and Crystal cartridge specs.

Not sure if variluctance is if interest here but I found this while trying to find specs to rewind my coils on my dead garrard rc88.
Kindly posted on eBay by the seller !!
Coil resistance per coil is 360 ohms and Iím planning to rewind with 0.05mm coated wire.
I estimate 41m wire and 3500 turns.
JB
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Old 15th Nov 2021, 3:03 am   #58
oldboy1
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Smile Re: Ceramic and Crystal cartridge specs.

wired communications
Roger Deane
7342 E Quail Track Rd
SCOTTSDALE, AZ 85266-7605
United States
(480) 209-1700

this is where i found my cart. sorry for the delay,
but i misplaced it. can't really use my changer
because the wire i used to replace the broken
leads is too stiff, so it impedes the tracking. local
electronics supply is very limited here in New Mexico.
going to try some wire taken from a cell phone charging
cable. if that works ....
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Old 8th Mar 2022, 1:20 pm   #59
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Default Re: Ceramic and Crystal cartridge specs.

Ben, did you ever re-issue your cartridge list with updates?
(I'm researching original stereo crystal cartridges for use with my huge Pamphonic Langham TV/Radiogram)
thanks
-Jeremy
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Old 23rd Aug 2022, 12:18 pm   #60
Phonosandradios
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Default Re: Ceramic and Crystal cartridge specs.

I was recently asking about suitable replacement cartridges for a deck in an early 1950's radiogram. As luck would have it I came across the specs for the cartridges in question which are the separate crystal carts for 78rpm and long playing records which came with the Model 2125 EMI deck. I have attached photos of the cartridges (for identification purposes) and the page with the output info for each. The output from the 78rpm cart is slightly higher than the LP one. Hopefully if someone else is ever looking for the information this will be of help in sourcing a replacement cart with the correct output.
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Last edited by Phonosandradios; 23rd Aug 2022 at 12:34 pm.
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