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Other Vintage Household Electrical or Electromechanical Items For discussions about other vintage (over 25 years old) electrical and electromechanical household items. See the sticky thread for details. |
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13th Jun 2021, 8:09 pm | #1 |
Tetrode
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Wye, Kent, UK.
Posts: 93
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US GE Clock 60Hz
I have a 1950s American GE electric clock, 117VAC/60Hz. Very ordinary, but it has strong sentimental value. I attach a photo.
Obviously it won't work here in UK, even with a voltage transformer. It will run slow because of the difference in mains frequency. Can anything be done? Are these movements standard enough that I could replace the original movement with one from a vintage UK clock? Could one perhaps even just change one gear for one with a different number of teeth? I have not opened up the clock yet so no idea what it looks like inside. Thanks!
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Martin |
13th Jun 2021, 9:11 pm | #2 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Oxford, UK.
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Re: US GE Clock 60Hz
Hi Martin,
I think an external frequency converter is your best bet, if funds permit: http://www.electric-clocks.co.uk/Fre...cyconvert.html |
14th Jun 2021, 6:32 am | #3 | |
Tetrode
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Wye, Kent, UK.
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Re: US GE Clock 60Hz
Quote:
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Martin |
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14th Jun 2021, 8:34 am | #4 | ||
Dekatron
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Re: US GE Clock 60Hz
Quote:
Quote:
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14th Jun 2021, 10:23 am | #5 |
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Re: US GE Clock 60Hz
You could also just build your own driver box. You need an accurate 60Hz sine wave, some sort of power amp (like a class D output chip) and a mains transformer wired 'backwards' to create the necessary 117V drive signal. It would make an interesting project if you enjoy practical tinkering.
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14th Jun 2021, 1:04 pm | #6 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Oxford, UK.
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Re: US GE Clock 60Hz
Yes, see here:
https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...d.php?t=171888 I liked the sound of Hamid's suggestion in post 8, which sounds like what Mark Lines' unit does. Note that I haven't heard from the friend who owns the clock for ages, so nothing's happened yet. Last edited by Nickthedentist; 14th Jun 2021 at 1:10 pm. |
14th Jun 2021, 1:23 pm | #7 |
Heptode
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: High Wycombe, Bucks. UK.
Posts: 811
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Re: US GE Clock 60Hz
This problem comes up quite often. How to run an imported clock on a different mains frequency? There are several solutions. The commercially available frequency converter as mentioned above is the easiest answer - just plug and play - but it is expensive, costing considerably more than most electric clocks are worth. (Of course, if the clock is of sentimental value, you may consider the cost of the converter to be a price worth paying.)
For a DIY approach that requires only a few parts costing a fraction of the price of a commercial converter, I found this: http://www.romanblack.com/one_sec.htm Near the end of the page, it describes a crystal-controlled inverter and a mains-locked 50Hz to 60Hz converting inverter exactly like the commercially available frequency converter from electric-clocks.co.uk I've attached the circuit diagram. The source code for the PIC chip is here: http://www.romanblack.com/onesec/ZE_SineConverter.htm This will follow your local mains frequency for good long-term accuracy. There's also a crystal-controlled version which will be as accurate as a quartz clock. It can generate 50 or 60Hz depending on the crystal, so you could change it to use a British clock in the USA if you needed to. Here's the source code but no circuit diagram: http://www.romanblack.com/onesec/ZE_SineInverter.htm |
14th Jun 2021, 2:33 pm | #8 |
Tetrode
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Wye, Kent, UK.
Posts: 93
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Re: US GE Clock 60Hz
Thank you everyone. For the moment I have adopted the solution suggested by Nickthedentist and purchased the converter he suggested.
I am indeed a tinkerer/builder. My ham station is entirely homebrewed from 1950s/60s designs. I'm British but lived in the USA for a long time and moved back to UK three years ago. The clock is my shack clock from America and is essentially identical to the one in the photo on the cover of ARRL's book, "How to Become a Radio Amateur" from 1968 (see attached photo). Hence the sentimental value....
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14th Jun 2021, 4:58 pm | #9 |
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Re: US GE Clock 60Hz
I love tinkering and building too but sometimes an off the shelf bit of kit is the right choice. For example I got a "digital delay/lip sync" box from Scotland, OK I could have made it for less than a tenner and hours of programming, 60 quid and it works a treat. https://www.js-technology.com/store/...roller=product I am still wondering why I need one though.
Last edited by Guest; 14th Jun 2021 at 5:00 pm. Reason: Got the price wrong |
24th Jun 2021, 4:53 pm | #10 |
Tetrode
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Wye, Kent, UK.
Posts: 93
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Re: US GE Clock 60Hz
So I went ahead and purchased one of the suggested voltage/frequency converters to run my American AC clock in the UK. It works beautifully in terms of running the clock, which is keeping perfect time.
However, the clock is in a ham radio shack and the "system" (converter plus clock) is generating considerable RFI on the ham bands. I have tried several things, including putting the converter in another room and running a cord to the clock, but that made no difference. I also tried placing ferrite beads on the cords, but that also made no difference. I attach a photo of the clock below (bog standard American GE from the 1950s). Does anyone know how feasible it might be to remove the mechanism and replace it with a battery mechanism, thus eliminating the risk of RFI altogether? If so, any suggestions for the best "donor clock" to cannibalize from? The clock is a "glow in the dark" model (constant very low level lighting from a bulb inside) but, in the event of conversion to battery power, I don't mind losing that feature in the interest of longer battery life. By the way, in the photo, the clock is literally on top of my radio receiver, just to make a nice picture. During the RFI tests, the clock was not in that position, but was actually about a foot away on the table to the left. Thanks!
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24th Jun 2021, 4:57 pm | #11 |
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Re: US GE Clock 60Hz
Ferrite beads on the mains cable to the converter and at both ends of the cable to the clock?
David
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24th Jun 2021, 5:03 pm | #12 |
Tetrode
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Wye, Kent, UK.
Posts: 93
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Re: US GE Clock 60Hz
Yes, exactly. Plus, a few more midway along the two longest cables.
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Martin |
24th Jun 2021, 5:06 pm | #13 |
Tetrode
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Wye, Kent, UK.
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Re: US GE Clock 60Hz
In a brief browse on Amazon, I found several modern analog battery clocks (with quartz movements) that are about the same physical size as my GE. I suppose the question is how easy it would be to mount the movement and attach the (original GE) needles on the new movement, plus, whether a difference in the weight of the needles (compared to the original clock) could cause it to run slow or fast. I would imagine it would run perfectly (because of the quartz movement) or, not at all.
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24th Jun 2021, 5:12 pm | #14 |
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Re: US GE Clock 60Hz
The converter will have lots of switching electronics inside, so it's not surprising that there's an RFI issue. The first thing to try is putting it in an earthed metal box or even wrapping it in kitchen foil (watch out for shorts though).
It should be easy enough to fit a quartz movement, but that's heresy to many here. If you choose to take that route you can buy them new, or scavenge them from clocks bought from car boots, charity shops or flea markets. Seiko and Actim use good movements - in fact any brand that you've actually heard of should be OK. Watch out for movements with overly loud ticks. The weight of the hands won't be an issue. |
24th Jun 2021, 5:26 pm | #15 | |
Tetrode
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Wye, Kent, UK.
Posts: 93
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Re: US GE Clock 60Hz
Quote:
Edited to add: It will be functionally almost identical to the original ... it's not as if I'm turning it into a cocktail cabinet. I thought so, but thank you for confirming it!
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Martin Last edited by MartinMarris; 24th Jun 2021 at 5:38 pm. |
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24th Jun 2021, 6:15 pm | #16 |
Tetrode
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Wye, Kent, UK.
Posts: 93
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Re: US GE Clock 60Hz
OK done. I've ordered a Seiko movement that will fit inside the original case. Hopefully the hands from the GE will slot onto the Seiko shaft. The rest should be easy, I just need to cut a small aluminium mounting plate for the new movement.
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Martin |
24th Jun 2021, 6:33 pm | #17 |
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Re: US GE Clock 60Hz
Good luck with it.
I have a Seiko wall clock in the kitchen which keeps near perfect time (less than 5 seconds drift in 6 months - that's the setting interval for summer/winter time). |
24th Jun 2021, 6:49 pm | #18 |
Tetrode
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Wye, Kent, UK.
Posts: 93
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Re: US GE Clock 60Hz
I've always liked Seiko timepieces. I had a Seiko analog quartz wristwatch for decades but somehow I lost it, not that long ago. It, too, kept almost perfect time.
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Martin |
1st Jul 2021, 1:48 pm | #19 |
Tetrode
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Wye, Kent, UK.
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Re: US GE Clock 60Hz
I've obtained the donor clock, a Seiko. It will be a good fit to go inside the original GE case.
However, the holes on the hands of the donor clock are smaller than the original hands and I need to mount the original hands on the new movement. See photo. What is the best approach?
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1st Jul 2021, 2:28 pm | #20 |
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Re: US GE Clock 60Hz
I would use the hands from the donor movement to mount the original hands. You should be able to modify both sets of hands to make a neat job of it. Superglue should make a decent enough bond.
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