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Old 12th Sep 2020, 9:47 am   #21
marty_ell
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Default Re: The cathode ray tube, do you really believe it would persist into 21st century?

I have a 41 year old Hitachi 12" mains/battery portable B&W which I keep solely to go with my old home computer (colour CRTs never showed crisp text with the computer and LCD TV's can't seem to cope with the modulation depth). The TV has never had a hint of a problem. I power it up every year or so to keep the electrolytics in good order, very occasionally I dig the ancient computer out of the cupboard for same reason.
Cheers, Marty
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Old 12th Sep 2020, 10:15 am   #22
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Default Re: The cathode ray tube, do you really believe it would persist into 21st century?

In 2006 Currys announced they would stop selling TV sets with CRTs and it made good business sense to do so. Think of the logistics of having to move heavy large screen TV sets about and the storage space needed for the large boxes.
The 32" Samsung "Slimfit" CRT television weighed 55Kg . Compare that with a 32" LCD which these days will be 10Kg or so. The slimfit was 399mm deep so really it wasn't all that slim anyway.

DFWB.
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Old 12th Sep 2020, 10:26 am   #23
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Default Re: The cathode ray tube, do you really believe it would persist into 21st century?

During my time in the trade from 1977 to the end of 2000 from time to time someone would say something like" One day the TV will just be a flat screen you hang on the wall".
Despite various reports that it was coming in various publications nothing happened for years. Then there were reports of small screen sets being sold in Japan with bigger screens under development.

I remember having a conversation with another dealer that as a lot of the circuitry in a CRT set was "support" for the tube and that most of the repairs needed in the average set was in those areas that once the screen was solid state there probably wouldn't be much to repair as the receiver, I.F and decoder didn't amount to a very high proportion of the faults anymore.

Ignorance is bliss... We didn't realise at the time the amount of circuitry that would be required to run the panel of course !
I assumed it would be a cool running LCD / LED affair that would be totally reliable... lasting the life of the set... I got out just in time I recon!

I have a 10" Panasonic CRT set I bought in 2000 as a kitchen set that was also used on holidays in my motorhome, it was very quickly replaced when I was given a new supposedly faulty Cello LCD set, so it didn't see much use . I keep it for the odd occasion I want to watch a video tape as the picture on that from a VCR looks fine whereas on a flat-screen set it looks dreadful...
CRT sets were fine when people were happy with 22" screens but I admit they got very heavy and ungainly with some of the bigger screens!
RIP CRT
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Old 12th Sep 2020, 10:29 am   #24
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Default Re: The cathode ray tube, do you really believe it would persist into 21st century?

The 14" portables seem to still have a ready market at a good price, especially with built in DVD, the larger sets less so, the gamers I suppose - you would think they would prefer larger screens?
Steve.
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Old 12th Sep 2020, 10:31 am   #25
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Default Re: The cathode ray tube, do you really believe it would persist into 21st century?

I couldn't imagine any other sort of display in the '50s, although there was talk of a 'flat screen you could hang on the wall' it took nearly 50 years to get here. The only 'flat screen sets' in my day were the rear projection type and they weren't exactly small.

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Old 12th Sep 2020, 2:04 pm   #26
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Default Re: The cathode ray tube, do you really believe it would persist into 21st century?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catkins View Post

I think the person was "L. F. Broadway" and the book may have been "Here's Looking at You" by Bruce Norman.

On Page 76 there's this quote

"And it's curious, looking back on it, that at that time we believed the CRT as a display device was only an interim measure. We didn't really believe that this huge vacuum envelope, a cumbersome sort of thing, would last"
To be fair, it has been an interim measure, it just took a bit more time than predicted.
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Old 12th Sep 2020, 9:06 pm   #27
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Default Re: The cathode ray tube, do you really believe it would persist into 21st century?

Quote:
Originally Posted by slidertogrid View Post
During my time in the trade from 1977 to the end of 2000 from time to time someone would say something like" One day the TV will just be a flat screen you hang on the wall".
That's what I was going to say.


The first LCD set I saw was in a friends house, the picture was awful and you could turn the brightness up and down (as it were) by standing on your tiptoes!

I had a play and found the brightness and contrast controls in the menu, well that's what they were called, they certainly didn't behave as such.

I was trying to use the brightness to set the black-level, but it was futile.

We have certainly come a long way, with flat screens, and with several technologies.
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Old 12th Sep 2020, 10:32 pm   #28
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Default Re: The cathode ray tube, do you really believe it would persist into 21st century?

Most of the mobile retro gaming providers seem to prefer the smaller screens as they are easier to lug around.

I guess for home gamers it seems to be the nostalgia of playing in a bedroom when they were young, using a portable set.
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Old 12th Sep 2020, 11:02 pm   #29
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Default Re: The cathode ray tube, do you really believe it would persist into 21st century?

I'm actually in a few retro gaming groups on other social media, not for the games, but for the TVs, and I think it's a mix of nostalgia and space. Most still watch and use modern TVs, but only use the CRT set for when they play retro games, which might not be everyday, and so want something they can easily put away. The other more devoted people tend to use Sony PVMs, and BVMs.

I don't think they really care about the sets as much, just as long as it's a CRT and it works as it should. There are some who want larger screens, period accurate sets or other features, but the majority don't seem to care

'77
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Old 13th Sep 2020, 6:00 am   #30
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Default Re: The cathode ray tube, do you really believe it would persist into 21st century?

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Originally Posted by FERNSEH View Post
There can't a single TV set made now that employs a cathode ray tube for the picture display. Apart from the Samsung "Slimfit" TV set introduced in 2005 the reckoning at that time was the game was up for the CRT.
The obvious question here is were there any CRT televisions made with a built in DVB tuner? I seriously doubt it, because CRT televisions were becoming obsolete (i.e. low margin bargain basement products) just at the time DVB was appearing on the scene as a built-in premium feature, and it wouldn't make sense to combine the two. In fact as far as I'm aware by the time manufacturers were incorporating DVB tuners into televisions LCD had won. In other words CRTs had to contend with both LCD and DVB.

It could have happened differently. Back in the early 2000s I was a principal engineer and lead software architect working on a first generation DVB SoC (System on a Chip) for a British OEM semi-conductor company. The company management's notion of what manufacturers/customers wanted turned out completely different to reality. We designed a full functionality DVB SoC with the usual functions, but also with PVR recording to disk (Watch and Record, and Pause TV), and DVB streaming over the internet. As principal engineer I implemented all the major software. At the time we had a number of large screen CRT televisions for testing (but no LCD televisions as they were not very good at the time). Using one of them we produced a prototype CRT television with the DVB electronics incorporated, that is a CRT based television with built-in DVB tuner and PVR in 2003.

But the manufacturers at the time (as a semi-conductor OEM our market were television manufacturers) were not interested in any advanced functionality. Time and time again, all they wanted was a cheap "zap box", that is a cheap plug in box to an existing television that gave basic DVB functionality. They claimed that is all the market wanted at the time. The problem was due to licensing (the licensing of certain IPR in the SoC), the company couldn't sell the SoC cheap enough for a basic "zap box".

The SoC had some sales but not enough to recoup the R&D. A version 2 massively cut down and substantially cheaper SoC was mostly designed, but, the company ran out of money, cancelled the project, and shortly afterwards went bankrupt. This was the end of the last incarnation of a well known British semi-conductor company.

A number of years afterwards, replacing my aging analogue CRT television, I noticed all the televisions were now LCD and had built-in DVB tuners, with internet streaming and/or PVR. But it was too late for the company I worked for.
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Old 13th Sep 2020, 8:16 am   #31
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Default Re: The cathode ray tube, do you really believe it would persist into 21st century?

There were a few CRT sets with a built in DVB tuner.
The Samsung slim fit had a couple of versions/models that had both HDMI inputs as well as built in DVB tuners, a couple of Sony sets too, not forgetting of course several Vestal sets, but as you say the writing was on the wall by then.

Edit: There were also late models (EM chassis) by Philips that also had a HD recorder as well as DVB built in too.
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Old 13th Sep 2020, 8:44 am   #32
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Default Re: The cathode ray tube, do you really believe it would persist into 21st century?

I plan to keep using a CRT monitor for artistic work. The colour is good enough to be trusted, and the contrast is constant no matter what angle you view the screen from. The geometry's not perfect, but that's not much of problem because I draw on paper and only use the computer for clean-up and colouring. My current screen is a nineteen year old LG Studioworks 700s. It conked out last month, but there was no chance of getting a replacement in the middle of the lockdown so I was forced to repair it myself. Twice.
(If you have complete loss of picture with one of these, check for dry joints and blown transistors in the horizontal output chain.)
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Old 13th Sep 2020, 2:37 pm   #33
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Default Re: The cathode ray tube, do you really believe it would persist into 21st century?

I remember seeing an integrated CRT set on offer when I was looking for a new set in 2001, with a 28" wide screen which my Dad reckoned would turn my bedroom into a cinema.

It was about £450, marked down from a much higher price.
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Old 13th Sep 2020, 4:48 pm   #34
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Default Re: The cathode ray tube, do you really believe it would persist into 21st century?

Hello

CRT with DVB (freeview)? Panasonic Quintrix is still the family TV here bought new a bit before the analogue shutdown works fine and never had any problem.

Bye
Will
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Old 13th Sep 2020, 10:39 pm   #35
Richard_FM
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Default Re: The cathode ray tube, do you really believe it would persist into 21st century?

I remember someone I used to work with said they bought an early integrated CRT set from John Lewis.

While still under warranty it went wrong and whoever did the after-sales servicing for John Lewis couldn't fix it, so they offered her money off a new set as her model had been discontinued.
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Old 13th Sep 2020, 11:00 pm   #36
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Default Re: The cathode ray tube, do you really believe it would persist into 21st century?

AFAIR, in George Orwell's "1984" (written/published in 1948) the "telescreen" that all party members had, was remarkably like modern smart TVs: flat screen and providing two-way communication (but only one channel).
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Old 13th Sep 2020, 11:47 pm   #37
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Default Re: The cathode ray tube, do you really believe it would persist into 21st century?

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AFAIR, in George Orwell's "1984" (written/published in 1948) the "telescreen" that all party members had, was remarkably like modern smart TVs: flat screen and providing two-way communication (but only one channel).
And I know level headed sensible people who cover their laptop camera with tape in case they are being spied on.
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Old 13th Sep 2020, 11:59 pm   #38
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Default Re: The cathode ray tube, do you really believe it would persist into 21st century?

Nothing new there. In the early days of TV some people covered the screen when not "looking in" as watching TV was called. Nothing to do with Facebook conspiracies either, just superstition. If you could see them, maybe...
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Old 14th Sep 2020, 12:07 am   #39
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Default Re: The cathode ray tube, do you really believe it would persist into 21st century?

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And I know level headed sensible people who cover their laptop camera with tape in case they are being spied on.
errr... doesn't everybody do that ?
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Old 14th Sep 2020, 2:40 am   #40
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Default Re: The cathode ray tube, do you really believe it would persist into 21st century?

I have one of these ex rental bought about 10 years ago,very reliable except the dvb tuner which i have never got to work. Panasonic Quintrix.

Last edited by radiograham; 14th Sep 2020 at 2:43 am. Reason: no quote
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