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Vintage Telephony and Telecomms Vintage Telephones, Telephony and Telecomms Equipment |
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21st Jan 2023, 2:50 pm | #1 |
Tetrode
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Canterbury, Kent, UK.
Posts: 71
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Caller ID display
Hi everyone,
I have a CD1000 caller display which seems to have finally given up the ghost, so I'm looking to pick up another, or something similar. My question was going to be: does anyone know where I can get hold of one of these ( having so far not succeeded in locating one on either eBay or Amazon )? However ... I seem to remember when these first came out ( in the 90s ...? ) that at the time, BT were advertising the fact that the then new technology would tell you not only the caller's number, but also their name. I personally only ever had the CD1000 and the other, flatter unit ( which I can't remember the model number of ), but certainly neither of these had the capacity to tell you the caller's name. I assume the idea was that you would programme the name yourself, rather than the unit extracting it from the BT database ...!... but, although I can't claim to have researched it in depth, I've never seen a caller display unit which did in fact allow you to programme it in such a way that it would display a name rather than ( or as well as ) a number for an incoming call. Whether or not such a thing existed at the time, I can't imagine it doesn't exist today, with 25-odd years' worth of technology inbetween. That being said, part of the problem is that I have four 782 phones which I wish to keep, rather than using a modern phone with built-in display. Do they even make free-standing Caller ID units now, let alone the kind I'm talking about? |
21st Jan 2023, 3:43 pm | #2 |
Heptode
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: High Wycombe, Bucks. UK.
Posts: 811
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Re: Caller ID display
The caller display system is capable of sending the caller's name over the network as well as their phone number. However, after the system was developed, BT decided not to send names due to privacy concerns. On some BT phones you can manually enter and store names and numbers in the phone's memory. If the caller's number matches a saved phonebook entry, it shows the name you have entered when the phone rings. I've not come across a standalone caller display unit that allows names to be entered manually.
I noticed in Canada, Bell phone lines send the line renter's name along with their number. Both are displayed on caller ID phones. It can be done. BT chose not to. BT and Bell used different incompaible caller ID systems. To add to the problem, UK cable TV companies usually used the Bell method of sending caller ID on their phone lines. This meant if you had a BT caller display unit or phone, it wouldn't display anything on a cable phone line. Non-BT equipment (e.g. Binatone) usually worked with both systems. AFAIK Standalone caller display boxes are no longer being made, but you can get modern phones with caller display built-in. You can use one alongside a vintage phone just for the caller display feature. I'm sure I have a couple of spare caller ID displays if you want one, though they'll need testing first - I'm not sure if they still work. |
21st Jan 2023, 3:46 pm | #3 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Staffordshire Moorlands, UK.
Posts: 5,263
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Re: Caller ID display
I've just had a quick look on ebay and there are lots of used ones. If you want a new one, most call blockers with a display can be used just as a display with the block facility turned off. I have the 'call angel' one at home which allows you to put in names against known numbers so the name appears when your friends call. However my new phones all have caller display so the call angel is in the drawer at the moment.
(no connection to below items) https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/334604414998 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/195566204682 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/255936041460
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Kevin |
21st Jan 2023, 3:58 pm | #4 |
Nonode
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Nuneaton, Warwickshire, UK.
Posts: 2,034
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Re: Caller ID display
Here's a pic of ours. I can't honestly remember how many years we've had it; probably about 20 years ago if I had to guess. It came free with the Calling Number service we subscribed to; £3 a quarter if I recall correctly. Our phone services are now rolled up with our broadband and I'm not sure if we still get charged for the Calling Number service.
Cheers Aub
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21st Jan 2023, 4:25 pm | #5 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: West Cumbria (CA13), UK
Posts: 6,118
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Re: Caller ID display
I believe the Collectors' Network CNet sends a name along with the number. Unfortunately, none of this makes it through my ancient PABX to the telephone extensions. I would need to have a separate display unit connected to each line going into the PABX.
In answer to Aub's question, I believe enabling Caller Display is now free-of-charge.
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21st Jan 2023, 7:03 pm | #6 |
Dekatron
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Greater Manchester, UK.
Posts: 18,676
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Re: Caller ID display
I've got two like those somewhere, white with BT Piper livery.
They were a pound a piece from a stall at Bury Market. Mine have a call waiting LED which works by the unit periodically seizing the line, and listening for the stuttered dial-tone. They have a two line display and will show the CLI, and the callers name simultaneously on a compatible phone system. Even my BT Feature Line telephone here on my desk, with it's large LCD display needs to alternate the name & number on the same part of the display.
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21st Jan 2023, 7:11 pm | #7 |
Dekatron
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Greater Manchester, UK.
Posts: 18,676
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Re: Caller ID display
OFCOM forbade call providers from charging extra for the caller display service many years ago.
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21st Jan 2023, 7:52 pm | #8 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Wiltshire, UK.
Posts: 13,953
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Re: Caller ID display
Given that almost everyone [whether it's your local council, GP, NHS hospital, utility-company or the offshore banking-fraud/supposed-to-be-Amazon/Netflix scammer] doesn't present credible CLI data these days, I don't really understand the need for a CLI display.
Whatever it shows, don't believe it!
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21st Jan 2023, 8:06 pm | #9 |
Heptode
Join Date: Feb 2022
Location: Leicestershire, UK.
Posts: 690
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Re: Caller ID display
Agreed when spoofed but I found mine very useful when the ma in law rang [bless her]
Rog |
21st Jan 2023, 8:56 pm | #10 |
Nonode
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Nuneaton, Warwickshire, UK.
Posts: 2,034
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Re: Caller ID display
That figures. They wouldn't have dropped it out of the goodness of their hearts.
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22nd Jan 2023, 11:19 am | #11 |
Octode
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Carmel, Llannerchymedd, Anglesey, UK.
Posts: 1,498
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Re: Caller ID display
I have used a Tele products CID-PCI for many years (It has an RS232 o/p) to connect to a computer, which is very handy for producing historical logs. Sadly after various lightning issues, part of it was zapped and it no longer produced output. I discovered that there was still a data output from the main IC, so made it up with my own interface & PSU to keep things going. I am wondering though if the sending spec has changed, since occasionally it produces nonsense.
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22nd Jan 2023, 1:04 pm | #12 |
Heptode
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland, UK.
Posts: 528
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Re: Caller ID display
How does Caller ID work? Is it a set of tones sent down the line and filtered by the phone and is that why it can be spoofed? I don't understand spoofing then since the phone/device could reject a second set of data, so perhaps it is a challenge response from the consumer side.
I would be interested in a reference to this. |
22nd Jan 2023, 1:15 pm | #13 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: West Cumbria (CA13), UK
Posts: 6,118
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Re: Caller ID display
My understanding is that the ability to customise what is sent is available (originally for perfectly valid reasons) to certain types of subscriber so that businesses can use a standard number for call-back regardless of the actual number originating the call. The problem being that this facility can be used for nefarious purposes.
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Mending is better than Ending (cf Brave New World by Aldous Huxley) |
22nd Jan 2023, 1:51 pm | #14 | |
Octode
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Carmel, Llannerchymedd, Anglesey, UK.
Posts: 1,498
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Re: Caller ID display
Quote:
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22nd Jan 2023, 2:16 pm | #15 | ||
Heptode
Join Date: Feb 2022
Location: Leicestershire, UK.
Posts: 690
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Re: Caller ID display
Quote:
Rog |
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22nd Jan 2023, 2:56 pm | #16 | |
Dekatron
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Wiltshire, UK.
Posts: 13,953
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Re: Caller ID display
Quote:
There's no filtering/validation of CLI data when calls are handed between different telcos. Most of the 'offshore' scammers use VoIP from their callcentre to a VoIP-to-POTS breakout facilty rented from a UK telco, so the 'international' part of the call is done over IP and doesn't incur international call-charges.
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I'm the Operator of my Pocket Calculator. -Kraftwerk. |
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22nd Jan 2023, 3:22 pm | #17 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: West Cumbria (CA13), UK
Posts: 6,118
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Re: Caller ID display
Thank you for clarifying which types of subscriber have this ability. Although I had seen this spelt out before, I couldn't remember.
By the way, Rog, I think "number withheld" is another CLI string rather than no CLI.
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Mending is better than Ending (cf Brave New World by Aldous Huxley) |
22nd Jan 2023, 3:27 pm | #18 | |
Heptode
Join Date: Feb 2022
Location: Leicestershire, UK.
Posts: 690
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Re: Caller ID display
Quote:
Rog |
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22nd Jan 2023, 3:33 pm | #19 | ||
Dekatron
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Greater Manchester, UK.
Posts: 18,676
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Re: Caller ID display
Quote:
reversal of the POTS pair by the terminating POTS exchange, but it's only repeating the information from the originating end of the call, and that's where any spoofing is done. Nefarious spoofing will almost certainly be done using VoIP, but that doesn't mean that all VoIP spoofing is criminal. Take my home VoIP system for example, my main outgoing "line" is by discountvoip.co.uk, which is one of many similar brands run by a Dutch company called Dellmont BV. It natively provides no meaningful CLI you are encouraged to use your own; to effectively spoof one. Now 20 years ago when I started with VoIP a predecessor of this company allowed you to use any telephone number without any security checking, these days I have to prove that I can at least recieve an SMS or voice call on the number requested that delivers a 4 digit code required to complete the set up. So in this way I can present my land-line number on outgoing calls, a line that never use for making calls, only recieving them. Clearly there will be some providers elsewhere in the world who won't be so fussy. I have evidence that some cold callers change their presentation number literally on a call-by-call basis to create the pretence that they are close neighbours of their "mark's".
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