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Old 21st Jan 2023, 2:50 pm   #1
Telephone Guy
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Default Caller ID display

Hi everyone,
I have a CD1000 caller display which seems to have finally given up the ghost, so I'm looking to pick up another, or something similar.
My question was going to be: does anyone know where I can get hold of one of these ( having so far not succeeded in locating one on either eBay or Amazon )? However ...
I seem to remember when these first came out ( in the 90s ...? ) that at the time, BT were advertising the fact that the then new technology would tell you not only the caller's number, but also their name. I personally only ever had the CD1000 and the other, flatter unit ( which I can't remember the model number of ), but certainly neither of these had the capacity to tell you the caller's name. I assume the idea was that you would programme the name yourself, rather than the unit extracting it from the BT database ...!... but, although I can't claim to have researched it in depth, I've never seen a caller display unit which did in fact allow you to programme it in such a way that it would display a name rather than ( or as well as ) a number for an incoming call. Whether or not such a thing existed at the time, I can't imagine it doesn't exist today, with 25-odd years' worth of technology inbetween. That being said, part of the problem is that I have four 782 phones which I wish to keep, rather than using a modern phone with built-in display. Do they even make free-standing Caller ID units now, let alone the kind I'm talking about?
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Old 21st Jan 2023, 3:43 pm   #2
hamid_1
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Default Re: Caller ID display

The caller display system is capable of sending the caller's name over the network as well as their phone number. However, after the system was developed, BT decided not to send names due to privacy concerns. On some BT phones you can manually enter and store names and numbers in the phone's memory. If the caller's number matches a saved phonebook entry, it shows the name you have entered when the phone rings. I've not come across a standalone caller display unit that allows names to be entered manually.

I noticed in Canada, Bell phone lines send the line renter's name along with their number. Both are displayed on caller ID phones. It can be done. BT chose not to.

BT and Bell used different incompaible caller ID systems. To add to the problem, UK cable TV companies usually used the Bell method of sending caller ID on their phone lines. This meant if you had a BT caller display unit or phone, it wouldn't display anything on a cable phone line. Non-BT equipment (e.g. Binatone) usually worked with both systems.

AFAIK Standalone caller display boxes are no longer being made, but you can get modern phones with caller display built-in. You can use one alongside a vintage phone just for the caller display feature. I'm sure I have a couple of spare caller ID displays if you want one, though they'll need testing first - I'm not sure if they still work.
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Old 21st Jan 2023, 3:46 pm   #3
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Default Re: Caller ID display

I've just had a quick look on ebay and there are lots of used ones. If you want a new one, most call blockers with a display can be used just as a display with the block facility turned off. I have the 'call angel' one at home which allows you to put in names against known numbers so the name appears when your friends call. However my new phones all have caller display so the call angel is in the drawer at the moment.

(no connection to below items)

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/334604414998

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/195566204682

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/255936041460
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Old 21st Jan 2023, 3:58 pm   #4
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Default Re: Caller ID display

Here's a pic of ours. I can't honestly remember how many years we've had it; probably about 20 years ago if I had to guess. It came free with the Calling Number service we subscribed to; £3 a quarter if I recall correctly. Our phone services are now rolled up with our broadband and I'm not sure if we still get charged for the Calling Number service.

Cheers

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Old 21st Jan 2023, 4:25 pm   #5
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Default Re: Caller ID display

I believe the Collectors' Network CNet sends a name along with the number. Unfortunately, none of this makes it through my ancient PABX to the telephone extensions. I would need to have a separate display unit connected to each line going into the PABX.

In answer to Aub's question, I believe enabling Caller Display is now free-of-charge.
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Old 21st Jan 2023, 7:03 pm   #6
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Default Re: Caller ID display

I've got two like those somewhere, white with BT Piper livery.
They were a pound a piece from a stall at Bury Market.
Mine have a call waiting LED which works by the unit periodically seizing the line, and listening for the stuttered dial-tone.
They have a two line display and will show the CLI, and the callers name simultaneously on a compatible phone system.

Even my BT Feature Line telephone here on my desk, with it's large LCD display needs to alternate the name & number on the same part of the display.
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Old 21st Jan 2023, 7:11 pm   #7
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Default Re: Caller ID display

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aub View Post
our broadband and I'm not sure if we still get charged for the Calling Number service.
OFCOM forbade call providers from charging extra for the caller display service many years ago.
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Old 21st Jan 2023, 7:52 pm   #8
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Default Re: Caller ID display

Given that almost everyone [whether it's your local council, GP, NHS hospital, utility-company or the offshore banking-fraud/supposed-to-be-Amazon/Netflix scammer] doesn't present credible CLI data these days, I don't really understand the need for a CLI display.

Whatever it shows, don't believe it!
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Old 21st Jan 2023, 8:06 pm   #9
Roger Ramjet
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Default Re: Caller ID display

Agreed when spoofed but I found mine very useful when the ma in law rang [bless her]

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Old 21st Jan 2023, 8:56 pm   #10
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Default Re: Caller ID display

Quote:
Originally Posted by rambo1152 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aub View Post
our broadband and I'm not sure if we still get charged for the Calling Number service.
OFCOM forbade call providers from charging extra for the caller display service many years ago.
That figures. They wouldn't have dropped it out of the goodness of their hearts.
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Old 22nd Jan 2023, 11:19 am   #11
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Default Re: Caller ID display

I have used a Tele products CID-PCI for many years (It has an RS232 o/p) to connect to a computer, which is very handy for producing historical logs. Sadly after various lightning issues, part of it was zapped and it no longer produced output. I discovered that there was still a data output from the main IC, so made it up with my own interface & PSU to keep things going. I am wondering though if the sending spec has changed, since occasionally it produces nonsense.
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Old 22nd Jan 2023, 1:04 pm   #12
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Default Re: Caller ID display

How does Caller ID work? Is it a set of tones sent down the line and filtered by the phone and is that why it can be spoofed? I don't understand spoofing then since the phone/device could reject a second set of data, so perhaps it is a challenge response from the consumer side.

I would be interested in a reference to this.
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Old 22nd Jan 2023, 1:15 pm   #13
Dave Moll
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Default Re: Caller ID display

My understanding is that the ability to customise what is sent is available (originally for perfectly valid reasons) to certain types of subscriber so that businesses can use a standard number for call-back regardless of the actual number originating the call. The problem being that this facility can be used for nefarious purposes.
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Old 22nd Jan 2023, 1:51 pm   #14
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Default Re: Caller ID display

Quote:
Originally Posted by wireman View Post
How does Caller ID work? Is it a set of tones sent down the line and filtered by the phone and is that why it can be spoofed? I don't understand spoofing then since the phone/device could reject a second set of data, so perhaps it is a challenge response from the consumer side.

I would be interested in a reference to this.
It is sent as a 1200 baud signal just before the commencement of ringing. I would love to know how the spoofers achieve it, especially as they seem to be able to forge UK valid source codes from overseas.
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Old 22nd Jan 2023, 2:16 pm   #15
Roger Ramjet
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Default Re: Caller ID display

Quote:
Originally Posted by lesmw0sec View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by wireman View Post
How does Caller ID work? Is it a set of tones sent down the line and filtered by the phone and is that why it can be spoofed? I don't understand spoofing then since the phone/device could reject a second set of data, so perhaps it is a challenge response from the consumer side.

I would be interested in a reference to this.
It is sent as a 1200 baud signal just before the commencement of ringing. I would love to know how the spoofers achieve it, especially as they seem to be able to forge UK valid source codes from overseas.
Maybe when the scammer's dial the "victims"' number they withold theirs [1471] allowing their spoof CLI to be sent instead ?

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Old 22nd Jan 2023, 2:56 pm   #16
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Default Re: Caller ID display

Quote:
Originally Posted by lesmw0sec View Post
It is sent as a 1200 baud signal just before the commencement of ringing. I would love to know how the spoofers achieve it, especially as they seem to be able to forge UK valid source codes from overseas.
If you're using something like SIP via a VoIP gateway into the old telephone network, it's all virtual and your SIP gateway can generate any CLI data you choose to program. Same with commercial PABX connected via the likes of the old ISDN30 circuits; the PABX generates the LI data and can be anything you choose [that's the way the likes of hospitals/GP surgeries do it, substituting a generic number to prevent the revealing of the actual extension-numbers making the call].

There's no filtering/validation of CLI data when calls are handed between different telcos. Most of the 'offshore' scammers use VoIP from their callcentre to a VoIP-to-POTS breakout facilty rented from a UK telco, so the 'international' part of the call is done over IP and doesn't incur international call-charges.
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Old 22nd Jan 2023, 3:22 pm   #17
Dave Moll
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Default Re: Caller ID display

Thank you for clarifying which types of subscriber have this ability. Although I had seen this spelt out before, I couldn't remember.

By the way, Rog, I think "number withheld" is another CLI string rather than no CLI.
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Old 22nd Jan 2023, 3:27 pm   #18
Roger Ramjet
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Default Re: Caller ID display

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Moll View Post
Thank you for clarifying which types of subscriber have this ability. Although I had seen this spelt out before, I couldn't remember.

By the way, Rog, I think "number withheld" is another CLI string rather than no CLI.
Yes agreed Dave, l& my theory was a no go because GT6Tanuki has solved the enigma.

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Old 22nd Jan 2023, 3:33 pm   #19
Graham G3ZVT
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Default Re: Caller ID display

Quote:
Originally Posted by lesmw0sec View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by wireman View Post
How does Caller ID work? Is it a set of tones sent down the line and filtered by the phone and is that why it can be spoofed? I don't understand spoofing then since the phone/device could reject a second set of data, so perhaps it is a challenge response from the consumer side.

I would be interested in a reference to this.
It is sent as a 1200 baud signal just before the commencement of ringing. I would love to know how the spoofers achieve it, especially as they seem to be able to forge UK valid source codes from overseas.
Yes, it's sent as a burst of FSK data, accompanied by a polarity
reversal of the POTS pair by the terminating POTS exchange, but it's
only repeating the information from the originating end of the call, and
that's where any spoofing is done.

Nefarious spoofing will almost certainly be done using VoIP, but that
doesn't mean that all VoIP spoofing is criminal.

Take my home VoIP system for example, my main outgoing "line" is by
discountvoip.co.uk, which is one of many similar brands run by a Dutch
company called Dellmont BV.

It natively provides no meaningful CLI you are encouraged to use your own; to effectively spoof one.

Now 20 years ago when I started with VoIP a predecessor of this company allowed you to use any telephone number without any security checking, these days I have to prove that I can at least recieve an SMS or voice call on the number requested that delivers a 4 digit code required to complete the set up.

So in this way I can present my land-line number on outgoing calls, a line that never use for making calls, only recieving them.

Clearly there will be some providers elsewhere in the world who won't be so fussy.

I have evidence that some cold callers change their presentation number literally on a call-by-call basis to create the pretence that they are close neighbours of their "mark's".
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