405-Line VHF Aerials 2013 to the present day. - Page 19 - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

julie_m · 1st Mar 2016, 4:42 pm

If it's supposed to be for receiving FM radio, it's pointing in the wrong direction .....

Focus Diode · 1st Mar 2016, 6:05 pm

Spotted in Edinburgh this afternoon, a ch3 "X". None for BIII except for a horizontally polarised one in the north of the City, presumably for Grampian tv Durris.
Brian

akuram1 · 1st Mar 2016, 7:28 pm

Looks too long for B2 FM and about what I remember Ch3 would be, looks about five feet long.
Dealt with many Ch3 vertical back then.

emeritus · 11th Apr 2016, 3:14 am

Here's some spotted when driving into East London yesterday

The "Parsloes Avenue" array is evidently a communal array for a block of flats at the junction with Porters Avenue. The flats are in the middle of what was used to be the Becontree housing estate. It was a condition of tenancy that no external aerials were to be erected, so normally only loft aerials were allowed in 405-line days. Until a couple of years ago there was a similar array on a block of flats a mile away near Dagenham Heathway underground station, but by the time I went back with a camera, it had blown down in that winter's gales.

"Green Lane" is on the roof of a Pharmacy at the Ilford end of that road in the L.B. of Redbridge. Its survival seems to be due to it being used as a support for the later UHF aerial, having been twisted round in the process. Viewpoint not ideal: taken through the car window while in a queue of traffic, looking straight up with consequential foreshortening.

"East Ham" is on the Romford Road in the L.B. of Newham.

Heatercathodeshort · 11th Apr 2016, 9:25 am

While stuck in traffic 'somewhere in England' I took this picture. I was driving a lorry at the time but have no idea where it was. The location is unfamiliar to me so I hope someone may come up with the answer. I have darkened the exposure to give a clearer view of the many 405 aerials on the skyline.
I would guess the picture dates from around 2000-2005

PS Original picture added showing High Street clearer. Regards, John.

cheerfulcharlie · 11th Apr 2016, 9:34 am

Are there any of the small 'cheese grater' aerials that use to accompany these, still around? these were for BBC2 but didn't seem to survive the introduction of multiple channels on UHF.

HamishBoxer · 11th Apr 2016, 9:41 am

Nicely surviving dipole and five on Emley Moor.Misterton Doncaster S.Yorkshire

Nuvistor · 11th Apr 2016, 11:21 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheerfulcharlie

Are there any of the small 'cheese grater' aerials that use to accompany these, still around? these were for BBC2 but didn't seem to survive the introduction of multiple channels on UHF.

I have a J-Beam MBM46 still working in my loft, installed 1970. I may have to consider changing it with the removal of TV from 700Mhz and above, it's a group C type. See how it all works out.

Frank

cheerfulcharlie · 12th Apr 2016, 9:06 am

Frank, you may have to keep it as an antique LOL, as most of them outside seemed to go black rapidly. But then again there was still a lot of coal smoke around in those days. I suppose if they were also limited to one group that was another why reason they quickly disappeared.

HamishBoxer · 12th Apr 2016, 12:45 pm

Coal smoke of course rotted a heck of a lot of aerials and lashing kits.

SteveCG · 12th Apr 2016, 3:37 pm

Re post no. 366

I'm being a bit dim here but what is a 'cheese grater' type of UHF aerial please?

Nicklyons2 · 13th Apr 2016, 10:43 am

I was wondering what was being referred to here; I'm guessing the DER UHF aerial which had a 'figure 8' active element and a big mesh reflector.

Like these:

SteveCG · 13th Apr 2016, 11:10 am

Thanks Nicklyons2.

I see what you mean about the distinctive corrugated mesh reflector - it probably could grate cheese !

I've only ever seen a couple of those - one in London back in the mid-60s and another up in Lancashire in the 80s.

cheerfulcharlie · 13th Apr 2016, 11:16 am

Ah yes that is them, slowly sinking into the sunset with the VHF stacks-don't remember them quite like that but then again have not seen any for years.

music-centre · 13th Apr 2016, 1:06 pm

I moved into a house with one of those "figure of 8" Aerials on the roof many years ago, not much gain, I put another ordinary Aerial in the loft which worked much better.
Steve.

SteveCG · 13th Apr 2016, 1:26 pm

Re post no. 375

Quote "not much gain" - quite likely. However the aerial did have/ does have? a 60s 'Space Age' feel about it.

Interesting that it was a DER (rental I assume) special. I wonder why they bothered? - I would have thought a mass-produced six element yagi would have been cheaper.

colourking · 20th Apr 2016, 6:55 pm

Last Monday RTE TV news did a piece concerning the switch-off of the MMDS ('wireless-cable TV' service at 2.5GHz rolled out from 1990) network in the republic. Faced with increasing competition from Sky and FTA satellite, and the spectrum seen as valuable for other uses the decision was made to close the network nationwide (it had already closed in some parts of the country served by small repeaters). RTE did a report from the town of Ballinasloe in east Co. Galway showing various views of various rooftop TV aerials (not just MMDS). One view was a surviving installation for fringe 405-line TV from Northern Ireland. Its 20 seconds into this report,:

http://www.rte.ie/news/player/2016/0...f-at-midnight/

or alternatively see the attached picture from the report. Remnants (one half missing) of a horizontal polarised 2-element Band I aerial at the bottom of the pole are also to be seen. This was for RTE (625 lines) which used to be on Band I from Maghera, roughly in the opposite direction

ThePillenwerfer · 21st Apr 2016, 11:30 am

Here's one near me. It's now at an odd angle but it used to be horizontal.

— Joe

emeritus · 21st Apr 2016, 8:19 pm

Re the "figure of 8" aerials, it is surprising what you can get away with in a good reception area.

When my parents moved to Becontree ( London Borough of Barking) in 1968, they bought a new TV the following year to get BBC2. The dealer threw in VHF and UHF set top aerials, which worked OK on the set top if you positioned them properly and didn't go walking around near them. To get a more reliable performance, I tried simply putting them in the loft, running coax feeds down to the set: the tenancy agreement prohibited the erection of external aerials anyway. They gave excellent, interference-free and ghost-free reception. The VHF aerial was re-used for VHF radio reception after 405 line transmissions ceased, and the UHF aerial gave readings of more than 95% on the signal strength display of the digital TV we eventually got mum ( having to use two remote controls to operate the TV and digibox got a bit much when she was past 90), despite the use of a passive splitter to feed a second set. Clearly no need for a high-gain Yagi.

Both aerials were still in place when we cleared the house in 2014. The VHF aerial must have been knocked off the joist when the house had been re-roofed a few years previously (hence all the muck), but was still in place and providing excellent VHF radio reception, so I guess it does count as one still in place post 2013, although hidden from public view.

G6Tanuki · 21st Apr 2016, 9:01 pm

An aged and somewhat-dependent friend in Goring has one of those figure-of-8/flyswatter antennas: it only gets her the local [restricted relay ] DTTV PSB1 Mux.
I keep trying to convince her to embrace the third-millennium and get a satellite-dish so she can watch things like the History Channel in full HD (her TV has been 1080p for a decade...) - and so I can get my hands on the legacy flyswatter!

She's resistant - but the persistent "Retune now for extra stations" DTTV messages are wearing her down.

1st Mar 2016, 4:42 pm	#361
julie_m Dekatron Join Date: May 2008 Location: Derby, UK. Posts: 7,735	Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials 2013 to the present day. If it's supposed to be for receiving FM radio, it's pointing in the wrong direction ..... __________________ If I have seen further than others, it is because I was standing on a pile of failed experiments.

1st Mar 2016, 6:05 pm	#362
Focus Diode Octode Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Borough of Gateshead, UK. Posts: 1,420	Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials 2013 to the present day. Spotted in Edinburgh this afternoon, a ch3 "X". None for BIII except for a horizontally polarised one in the north of the City, presumably for Grampian tv Durris. Brian Attached Thumbnails

1st Mar 2016, 7:28 pm	#363
akuram1 Pentode Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Dundee, UK. Posts: 158	Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials 2013 to the present day. Looks too long for B2 FM and about what I remember Ch3 would be, looks about five feet long. Dealt with many Ch3 vertical back then.

11th Apr 2016, 3:14 am	#364
emeritus Dekatron Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Brentwood, Essex, UK. Posts: 5,339	Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials 2013 to the present day. Here's some spotted when driving into East London yesterday The "Parsloes Avenue" array is evidently a communal array for a block of flats at the junction with Porters Avenue. The flats are in the middle of what was used to be the Becontree housing estate. It was a condition of tenancy that no external aerials were to be erected, so normally only loft aerials were allowed in 405-line days. Until a couple of years ago there was a similar array on a block of flats a mile away near Dagenham Heathway underground station, but by the time I went back with a camera, it had blown down in that winter's gales. "Green Lane" is on the roof of a Pharmacy at the Ilford end of that road in the L.B. of Redbridge. Its survival seems to be due to it being used as a support for the later UHF aerial, having been twisted round in the process. Viewpoint not ideal: taken through the car window while in a queue of traffic, looking straight up with consequential foreshortening. "East Ham" is on the Romford Road in the L.B. of Newham. Attached Thumbnails Last edited by emeritus; 11th Apr 2016 at 3:38 am.

11th Apr 2016, 9:25 am	#365
Heatercathodeshort Dekatron Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Warnham, West Sussex. 10 miles south of DORKING. Posts: 9,147	Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials 2013 to the present day. While stuck in traffic 'somewhere in England' I took this picture. I was driving a lorry at the time but have no idea where it was. The location is unfamiliar to me so I hope someone may come up with the answer. I have darkened the exposure to give a clearer view of the many 405 aerials on the skyline. I would guess the picture dates from around 2000-2005 PS Original picture added showing High Street clearer. Regards, John. Attached Thumbnails

11th Apr 2016, 9:34 am	#366
cheerfulcharlie Heptode Join Date: May 2009 Location: Birmingham, West Midlands, UK. Posts: 708	Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials 2013 to the present day. Are there any of the small 'cheese grater' aerials that use to accompany these, still around? these were for BBC2 but didn't seem to survive the introduction of multiple channels on UHF.

11th Apr 2016, 9:41 am	#367
HamishBoxer Dekatron Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: W.Butterwick, near Doncaster UK. Posts: 8,932	Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials 2013 to the present day. Nicely surviving dipole and five on Emley Moor.Misterton Doncaster S.Yorkshire Attached Thumbnails __________________ G8JET BVWS Archivist and Member V.M.A.R.S

12th Apr 2016, 9:06 am	#369
cheerfulcharlie Heptode Join Date: May 2009 Location: Birmingham, West Midlands, UK. Posts: 708	Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials 2013 to the present day. Frank, you may have to keep it as an antique LOL, as most of them outside seemed to go black rapidly. But then again there was still a lot of coal smoke around in those days. I suppose if they were also limited to one group that was another why reason they quickly disappeared. Last edited by cheerfulcharlie; 12th Apr 2016 at 9:17 am.

12th Apr 2016, 12:45 pm	#370
HamishBoxer Dekatron Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: W.Butterwick, near Doncaster UK. Posts: 8,932	Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials 2013 to the present day. Coal smoke of course rotted a heck of a lot of aerials and lashing kits. __________________ G8JET BVWS Archivist and Member V.M.A.R.S

12th Apr 2016, 3:37 pm	#371
SteveCG Nonode Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Herefordshire, UK. Posts: 2,495	Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials 2013 to the present day. Re post no. 366 I'm being a bit dim here but what is a 'cheese grater' type of UHF aerial please?

13th Apr 2016, 10:43 am	#372
Nicklyons2 Octode Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Barnsley, South Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 1,517	Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials 2013 to the present day. I was wondering what was being referred to here; I'm guessing the DER UHF aerial which had a 'figure 8' active element and a big mesh reflector. Like these: Attached Thumbnails

13th Apr 2016, 11:10 am	#373
SteveCG Nonode Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Herefordshire, UK. Posts: 2,495	Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials 2013 to the present day. Thanks Nicklyons2. I see what you mean about the distinctive corrugated mesh reflector - it probably could grate cheese ! I've only ever seen a couple of those - one in London back in the mid-60s and another up in Lancashire in the 80s.

13th Apr 2016, 11:16 am	#374
cheerfulcharlie Heptode Join Date: May 2009 Location: Birmingham, West Midlands, UK. Posts: 708	Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials 2013 to the present day. Ah yes that is them, slowly sinking into the sunset with the VHF stacks-don't remember them quite like that but then again have not seen any for years.

13th Apr 2016, 1:06 pm	#375
music-centre Heptode Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Brentwood, Essex, UK. Posts: 687	Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials 2013 to the present day. I moved into a house with one of those "figure of 8" Aerials on the roof many years ago, not much gain, I put another ordinary Aerial in the loft which worked much better. Steve.

13th Apr 2016, 1:26 pm	#376
SteveCG Nonode Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Herefordshire, UK. Posts: 2,495	Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials 2013 to the present day. Re post no. 375 Quote "not much gain" - quite likely. However the aerial did have/ does have? a 60s 'Space Age' feel about it. Interesting that it was a DER (rental I assume) special. I wonder why they bothered? - I would have thought a mass-produced six element yagi would have been cheaper.

20th Apr 2016, 6:55 pm	#377
colourking Pentode Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Cork, Ireland Posts: 134	Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials 2013 to the present day. Last Monday RTE TV news did a piece concerning the switch-off of the MMDS ('wireless-cable TV' service at 2.5GHz rolled out from 1990) network in the republic. Faced with increasing competition from Sky and FTA satellite, and the spectrum seen as valuable for other uses the decision was made to close the network nationwide (it had already closed in some parts of the country served by small repeaters). RTE did a report from the town of Ballinasloe in east Co. Galway showing various views of various rooftop TV aerials (not just MMDS). One view was a surviving installation for fringe 405-line TV from Northern Ireland. Its 20 seconds into this report,: http://www.rte.ie/news/player/2016/0...f-at-midnight/ or alternatively see the attached picture from the report. Remnants (one half missing) of a horizontal polarised 2-element Band I aerial at the bottom of the pole are also to be seen. This was for RTE (625 lines) which used to be on Band I from Maghera, roughly in the opposite direction Attached Thumbnails Last edited by colourking; 20th Apr 2016 at 7:11 pm.

21st Apr 2016, 11:30 am	#378
ThePillenwerfer Octode Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Sheffield, South Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 1,453	Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials 2013 to the present day. Here's one near me. It's now at an odd angle but it used to be horizontal. — Joe Attached Thumbnails __________________ "Experts are only good at one thing: explaining why something will not work!"

21st Apr 2016, 8:19 pm	#379
emeritus Dekatron Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Brentwood, Essex, UK. Posts: 5,339	Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials 2013 to the present day. Re the "figure of 8" aerials, it is surprising what you can get away with in a good reception area. When my parents moved to Becontree ( London Borough of Barking) in 1968, they bought a new TV the following year to get BBC2. The dealer threw in VHF and UHF set top aerials, which worked OK on the set top if you positioned them properly and didn't go walking around near them. To get a more reliable performance, I tried simply putting them in the loft, running coax feeds down to the set: the tenancy agreement prohibited the erection of external aerials anyway. They gave excellent, interference-free and ghost-free reception. The VHF aerial was re-used for VHF radio reception after 405 line transmissions ceased, and the UHF aerial gave readings of more than 95% on the signal strength display of the digital TV we eventually got mum ( having to use two remote controls to operate the TV and digibox got a bit much when she was past 90), despite the use of a passive splitter to feed a second set. Clearly no need for a high-gain Yagi. Both aerials were still in place when we cleared the house in 2014. The VHF aerial must have been knocked off the joist when the house had been re-roofed a few years previously (hence all the muck), but was still in place and providing excellent VHF radio reception, so I guess it does count as one still in place post 2013, although hidden from public view. Attached Thumbnails Last edited by emeritus; 21st Apr 2016 at 8:31 pm.

21st Apr 2016, 9:01 pm	#380
G6Tanuki Dekatron Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Wiltshire, UK. Posts: 13,998	Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials 2013 to the present day. An aged and somewhat-dependent friend in Goring has one of those figure-of-8/flyswatter antennas: it only gets her the local [restricted relay ] DTTV PSB1 Mux. I keep trying to convince her to embrace the third-millennium and get a satellite-dish so she can watch things like the History Channel in full HD (her TV has been 1080p for a decade...) - and so I can get my hands on the legacy flyswatter! She's resistant - but the persistent "Retune now for extra stations" DTTV messages are wearing her down.