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Old 11th Dec 2022, 10:55 pm   #61
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Default Re: Record cleaning machines

well ajgriff, I was tempted. I ordered one.

Thanks again to all. I will do a detailed report when it gets here in a week or so.

Joe
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Old 12th Dec 2022, 2:18 am   #62
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Default Re: Record cleaning machines

Errr.... don't mention it Joe, you are most welcome, at most it used up an hour of my life!

Steve.
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Old 12th Dec 2022, 3:32 am   #63
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Default Re: Record cleaning machines

Special thanks to Steve, who I hope is retired like myself.
That means you did something with all that time we dont have .

I didnt not answer you but Alan sort of hinted at what I would do.

So special thanks to all.

Joe
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Old 12th Dec 2022, 3:49 am   #64
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Default Re: Record cleaning machines

I wasn't retired until 5 months ago - you never hear anyone saying that they wished they had retired later!

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Old 12th Dec 2022, 9:35 am   #65
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My thanks also for all the advice. I have ordered one too and will let you know how I get on. Mark
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Old 12th Dec 2022, 10:19 am   #66
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Default Re: Record cleaning machines

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajgriff View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edward Huggins View Post
I would love to hear a Before and After with one of these. I mean will I really hear a difference on a fairly good deck e.g a REGA 3?
Just to add to Craig's comments, the first records I cleaned with my RCM were ones I'd bought new and cared for lovingly since purchase. In other words they'd only been out of their sleeves (including PVC outers) when being played and always kept free of dust. I was amazed at the improvement after cleaning with the RCM.

Another benefit I've found is that the RCM eliminates static which is one of the main causes of contamination. Once cleaned I use a carbon fibre brush each time a record is played in order to mitigate against static build up.

Like Craig I often purchase records from dubious sources and some are really soiled. Very occasionally I clean them twice but am always impressed by the results.

You really will hear the difference especially with a good quality deck/cartridge combination. I use a Denon 103.

Alan
Yes, I've heard from others that cleaning new records gives an audible improvement. I have no idea why. Perhaps it is down to some sort of release agent that might be used in a record pressing machine.

Just to be controversial, the same sort of improvement can be heard by washing CD's - again loosely put down to mold release agent. You can certainly see a difference in the wetting property of a CD after washing with a little washing up liquid.

Goes to hide under a chair.

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Old 12th Dec 2022, 4:10 pm   #67
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Originally Posted by Craig Sawyers View Post

Yes, I've heard from others that cleaning new records gives an audible improvement. I have no idea why. Perhaps it is down to some sort of release agent that might be used in a record pressing machine.

Just to be controversial, the same sort of improvement can be heard by washing CD's - again loosely put down to mold release agent. You can certainly see a difference in the wetting property of a CD after washing with a little washing up liquid.

Goes to hide under a chair.

Craig
Yes the release agent is the problem, I always clean all new records before I play them not just because they sound better but it stops the stylus becoming caked in release agent.
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Old 12th Dec 2022, 7:03 pm   #68
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Default Re: Record cleaning machines

I’ve researched the subject of vinyl releasing agents in the past and reached the conclusion that external releasing agents are/were not generally used when pressing 12” vinyl LPs. Instead small amounts of stearic acid are added to the vinyl mix itself to assist in releasing records from the stamper.

To my mind the biggest problem associated with brand new pressings is static. In fact you can often hear the crackles when the record is withdrawn from its sleeve for the first time. This inevitably leads to an immediate accumulation of dust and fluff which is then transferred to the stylus. The big plus of an RCM is that it eliminates static although I can understand someone’s reluctance to clean an otherwise pristine record.

As for CDs, I always clean them when needed to remove finger marks etc. However I can’t honestly say that I’ve noticed any audible improvement after cleaning.

Alan
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Old 12th Dec 2022, 9:18 pm   #69
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Default Re: Record cleaning machines

I have been using a VPI vacuum style RCM. I only stopped to think about the fact that the drying bit of the cleaning, probably does more damage than good.
I am waiting patiently for the US cleaner to give a comparison. The only thing I am a little dubious of with the US machine is that it doesnt have a drying feature, so it will be interesting to see how long a record takes to dry. I remember reading about seedies when they were first released that they are pretty much immune to damage so I use a 9" Makita angle grinder with a 30 grade sanding disc attached. I dont have a seedie player so I havent heard the difference.


Joe
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Old 13th Dec 2022, 12:10 am   #70
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Default Re: Record cleaning machines

During the 1973 oil crisis, there was a problem getting the base vinyl material for records, being an oil-based product.

The net effect was that imperfect pressings were recycled after chopping them up. Records came out that were beset with built in crackle from the whole, and brutally imperfect, recycling process.

At that time, pressings became much thinner too. They stayed that way after the oil crisis, because it was cheaper to do so.

It is only relatively recently that pressings are at 130 grams again, and "virgin vinyl" is used.

Of course new pressings are expensive. But they always were. I found a copy of Virgin's original advert fairly recently. Virgin advertised that they were cheap to buy records from. But it you take the listed prices and correct for increase in RPI you get to thirty quid or even more. Which is about what you pay now for a new pressing.

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Old 13th Dec 2022, 12:31 am   #71
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I consider 180 gram vinyl the "best ", with lesser weights el cheapo. I have some LP's with like 40 tracks on them, " 40 grungy greats " type labels, that wont support their own weight when held by the edges. I dont have many of them, but the few I have is to save me spending big time an a really crappy LP that contained ONE only song that I liked. You can actually SEE thru them !!!, although it needs good light.
Be careful of "new digital pressings or digitally remasturd " releases. Some are copies of the first CD's that sound absolutely atrocious, BUT command high prices because its " the origional unreleased recordings " of somebody or other. Usually recorded on a 5 transistor casstte recorder after being played through a class B amplifier of again 5 transistor portable mini radio. Circa 1965 so it sounds right .


Joe

yes Im raving again
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Old 13th Dec 2022, 10:10 am   #72
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Of course new pressings are expensive. But they always were. I found a copy of Virgin's original advert fairly recently. Virgin advertised that they were cheap to buy records from. But it you take the listed prices and correct for increase in RPI you get to thirty quid or even more. Which is about what you pay now for a new pressing.

Craig
Yes, I seem to remember in the late '60s early 70's that a full price record cost about £3/10/- and the cheap ones were 10/- to £1. If a decent wage was around £1500 a year that would put the price of a new full price record to well over £30 now.
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Old 13th Dec 2022, 12:26 pm   #73
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I bought my first full price LP (Abbey Road) in 1970 from Richard Branson in person. It cost 35/- which for an impecunious teenager was a bargain compared with the full retail price of 37/6. Attached is an extract from a Virgin advert dated 1971 by which time prices had risen somewhat although this was still prior to the 1973/4 oil crisis. According to the BoE's inflation calculator my 35/- equates to £21-93 today.

Alan

PS Still got the Abbey Road LP of course.
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Old 13th Dec 2022, 12:37 pm   #74
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I have my original Wishbone Ash Pilgrimage.

For those with a streaming service (I use Tidal) the Pilgrimage on that is far better sounding than the original record. They must have accessed the master tapes to make the digital version sound so stunning. And it makes me realise why back in the day I saw Ash twice at Newcastle City Hall.

They are still touring BTW. Only one original band member remaining though.

Craig
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Old 13th Dec 2022, 5:54 pm   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joebog1 View Post
I have been using a VPI vacuum style RCM. I only stopped to think about the fact that the drying bit of the cleaning, probably does more damage than good.
I am waiting patiently for the US cleaner to give a comparison. The only thing I am a little dubious of with the US machine is that it doesnt have a drying feature, so it will be interesting to see how long a record takes to dry.
I'm intrigued that Joe has decided to go for an ultasonic RCM having previously used a VPI style vacuum machine. It'll be interesting to hear his views on how they compare.

There's certainly a degree of surface contact when using a vacuum RCM but I'm not convinced that causes any significant (ie, audible) harm especially as machine cleaning is normally an infrequent event.

Alan
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Old 13th Dec 2022, 11:48 pm   #76
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Actually, I have had a bit of a setback recently. I came out into "my loungeroom "
( its also my workshop, storage area, and junkshop )
to find my record storage rack listing alarmingly.
Bl**dy white ants had eaten out the bottom of the bookshelf that was my record rack and it was threatening to fall over. They also ate even the record labels off the centres of a few LP's, and totally ate the covers without any damage to the spine facing outwards. I lost about 200 LP's in what I call beyond repair/cleaning, especially when one couldnt even read what the label said, and covers no longer existed. ( unfortunately they ate the bottom shelf mostly, and they were all the U, V, W, X, Y, and Z artists. I did lose quite a few of my treasured Frank Zappa LP's, YES, Neil Young,etc.
I am also going to compile a list using GCstar so that when I fall off the perch, my kids will know what they want to keep, and what they want to sell ( boo hoo ).

SOO, I will be cleaning all of them over the next year or years. How long does it take to clean approximately 3500 LP's using US as the cleaning medium ?.

It has been a question I was going to ask, How long does it take to "drip dry " four LP's at a time ?.

I will also replace many of the inners as some of them that sat next to an eaten cover, got covered in sand created from the white ant poop. Whiteants are the local name for termites. Its very surprising that they liked SOME of the cardboard, but not others!!. American cardboard seemed to attract the most damage.

AHH well, sometimes shyte happens I guess.

Anyway I will take some photographs of the before and after results, and give an opinion of noticable audio improvement, IF ANY.


Joe
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Old 14th Dec 2022, 12:11 am   #77
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That is awful news, Joe. I hope that the damage is not so very bad once you have a good look.

Australia is alas full of critters. Returned recently from Newcastle NSW, during which we beat a number of cockroaches to death, plus a huntsman that came in to play one evening that my son in law calmly trapped in a bowl and put it back outside.

Craig
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Old 14th Dec 2022, 2:07 am   #78
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Craig,
If you could beat them to death, they were babies.
Try some in the wet season in Darwin and surrounds.
I lived there for three years and its not uncommon to see "grandad cocky " at 3 inches in length with plate armour as a coat. It doesnt mean you or your house is dirty or unclean, its just the size they get to there.

Huntsman are in fact very beneficial in a garden, ( your son is a clever lad ) or even if you have baby cockroach problems. They eat 'em with relish. I lived in Ryde in Sydney for about 8 years, the backyard there was crazed and cracked from being dry, and had funny legs by the hundreds
( Funnelweb ). I would sometimes go outside and poke at them with a broom handle, yes a 20mm or so lump of dowell and it was VERY easy to feel the spider "banging " on the wood. Remember funny legs dont have pincer jaws, but more like vertical snake fangs and strike down.

White ants . Well I live in White ant central. Before I mow I have to kick down several, if not many, large white ant nests. I have a LARGE ride on and its 17 horsepower engine will stall if I try cut them down. One needs a tractor WITH a blade to push them over. I still have to pick them up and throw them over the fence.

Sorry mods, slightly off topic, but I am very glad Craig has been here. That way it doesnt look like I am telling stories all the time.

So, pic 1 is my backyard that needs mowing, and the anthill is about 400 mm tall.
Pic2 is looking over my back fence towards Mount Uncle.
I live in the bush remember!!.

Joe
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Old 14th Dec 2022, 7:21 am   #79
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Default Re: Record cleaning machines

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Actually, I have had a bit of a setback recently.
Ooh...sympathies; that sounds really bad. I was pretty upset when ants invaded my kitchen and helped themselves to a large cherry cake.

B
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Old 14th Dec 2022, 9:37 am   #80
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Craig,
If you could beat them to death, they were babies.
Try some in the wet season in Darwin and surrounds.
I lived there for three years and its not uncommon to see "grandad cocky " at 3 inches in length with plate armour as a coat. It doesnt mean you or your house is dirty or unclean, its just the size they get to there.

Huntsman are in fact very beneficial in a garden, ( your son is a clever lad ) or even if you have baby cockroach problems. They eat 'em with relish. I lived in Ryde in Sydney for about 8 years, the backyard there was crazed and cracked from being dry, and had funny legs by the hundreds
( Funnelweb ). I would sometimes go outside and poke at them with a broom handle, yes a 20mm or so lump of dowell and it was VERY easy to feel the spider "banging " on the wood. Remember funny legs dont have pincer jaws, but more like vertical snake fangs and strike down.

White ants . Well I live in White ant central. Before I mow I have to kick down several, if not many, large white ant nests. I have a LARGE ride on and its 17 horsepower engine will stall if I try cut them down. One needs a tractor WITH a blade to push them over. I still have to pick them up and throw them over the fence.

Sorry mods, slightly off topic, but I am very glad Craig has been here. That way it doesnt look like I am telling stories all the time.

So, pic 1 is my backyard that needs mowing, and the anthill is about 400 mm tall.
Pic2 is looking over my back fence towards Mount Uncle.
I live in the bush remember!!.

Joe
Good grief. Sydney funnelwebs are among the real nasties. Aggressive as hell, and super toxic. The other two nasties are the red back and white tail, certainly in NSW. There may be more in your neck of the wood. There are also some massively toxic snakes - the brown snake can kill well before help arrives with an antitoxin.

Son in law runs a company of arborists https://www.gibbontrees.com/ , so he and his guys are used to things that live in trees (mainly huntsmans) but also chunky goannas. The only thing in the bush they really respect is the brown snake.

Those termite hills are truly spectacular. Is that a roo fence you've got?

Craig
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