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Old 9th Mar 2020, 1:05 pm   #41
Skywave
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Question Re: Some BBC local radio MW Tx closures

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Originally Posted by Junk Box Nick View Post
I always understood that Droitwich 198kHz was retained for national emergency, though it's well-known that the BBC have wanted rid of it for years.
I do recall - a few years ago - a statement here on this forum by somebody who was appropriately knowledgeable, that when the R.F O/P valve(s) eventually fail, Droitwich 198 kHz would close, since there aren't any spare O/P valves available.

Can anyone here confirm that, please?

Al.
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Old 9th Mar 2020, 1:14 pm   #42
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Default Re: Some BBC local radio MW Tx closures

Hi Al,

I don’t know the answer but if the TX is too old to maintain it must be possible to build one with new tech, whether the BBC/Gov want to do that is another matter.
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Old 9th Mar 2020, 6:31 pm   #43
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Default Re: Some BBC local radio MW Tx closures

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Originally Posted by rambo1152
My new Skoda doesn't have LW or MW, just DAB and FM.
More and more cars are deleting the legacy broadcast-radios and supporting Android Auto or Apple CarPlay: to the extent that the "built-in satnav" is obsolete [you use your phone's Google Maps instead - it doesn't have the vendor-lock-in issues that expected you to pay £100 every couple of years for a new mapset].

I don't fret about this: I've not used MW/LW radios in cars for decades, and have 'smoked' plenty of FM car-radio front-ends when running a couple of hundred Watts of 144MHz mobile SSB.

Broadcasting on MW/LW, let's face it, is heading towards extinction. Even the inner-city urban tower-block-pirates have abandoned it [they're now moving from FM to DAB: DAB has the advantage that you can post dynamic scrolling-messages showing the locations of the local raves]
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Old 9th Mar 2020, 8:38 pm   #44
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Default Re: Some BBC local radio MW Tx closures

Hi Al,

There was an article in the Guardian newspaper back in 2011 stating that Radio 4 Longwave would go when the transmitter valves failed.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/20...g-wave-goodbye

I think I remember some later discussion that the Guardian had got it wrong though...

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Old 10th Mar 2020, 9:02 am   #45
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Default Re: Some BBC local radio MW Tx closures

There's little point getting upset about this. I think we should embrace the demise and broadcast our own stuff.

Many of us already do with pantry TXs, but perhaps at some point the MW BCB will be so dead that Ofcom will lets us set up small stations in our area for the fun of it. Sort of like the USAs part 15 regs, but maybe a tad more power.

Ive been told anecdotally that at present, Ofcom will not go after MW pirates with clean rigs who aren't causing problems for others. And lets face it, what does Ofcom do about the dozens of electrical devices spewing noise across a lot of the MW and SW band anyway.

Im surprised its gone on this long, its pretty clear even FM is in its twilight years
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Old 10th Mar 2020, 11:57 am   #46
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Default Re: Some BBC local radio MW Tx closures

I think its just a case of enjoying AM broadcasts for as long as we can. Here near Bath I make a point of listening to BBC R4, R5L R Wales and Absolute on AM.
AM reception on BBC R4, R5L, R Wales and Absolute is still the strongest and clearest signals compared to either FM or DAB where I live. I have a few pantry transmitters ready to be pushed into service when required.
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Old 10th Mar 2020, 2:55 pm   #47
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Default Re: Some BBC local radio MW Tx closures

The 198kHz network carries the switching signals for Economy Seven cheap-rate electricity, and probably also used to carry something else related to the Cold War; Radio 4 was just the cover story providing a plausible explanation for its existence.
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Old 10th Mar 2020, 3:19 pm   #48
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Default Re: Some BBC local radio MW Tx closures

Two interesting articles about radio tele switching which some use 198Khz for transmission. Deadline was for March 2020, changed to March 2021 and could be 2022, a movable feast. One problem it the lack of replacement RTS meters and Smart Meters not being ready to be rolled out.
https://www.energy-uk.org.uk/files/d...bruary2020.pdf

https://www.elexon.co.uk/smg-issue/issue-84/
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Old 10th Mar 2020, 6:05 pm   #49
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Default Re: Some BBC local radio MW Tx closures

Presumably the teleswitching is a little like "slow Morse" in nature, requiring little bandwidth and power to be effective. It might be that dispensing with the pesky speech modulation bit and leaving a whisper of carrier for teleswitching and legacy 198kHz-referenced devices could carry on for a few years hence at somewhat lower cost until all dependent devices are out of service, or a big sender/mast maintenance problem comes up and the plug gets finally pulled.
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Old 10th Mar 2020, 6:53 pm   #50
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Default Re: Some BBC local radio MW Tx closures

From memory, the teleswitch signalling is achieved by phase-shifting the carrier.

Ah yes.... http://alancordwell.co.uk/Legacy/radio/teleswitch1.html

Not sure how successful this would continue to be if they were to replace the existing BBCR4 transmitters with a lower-power version without the AM program-content. I guess one of the virtues of the PSK approach is that you can keep repeating the same message over and over again so long as it's still valid, in the hope that eventually all the teleswitches will probably 'hear' a repeat through the noise.
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Old 12th Apr 2020, 8:22 pm   #51
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Default Re: Some BBC local radio MW Tx closures

Radio Cornwall on MW 63OKHz-657KHz is now no more, the repeat transmission saying its closing is gone. I thought I had a issue with a little Philips transistor radio I was working on today as I could only pick up 3 "clear" stations on the whole of the waveband this afternoon, talksport 5live and radio4. The silence was deafening..

regards poppydog
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Old 13th Apr 2020, 10:50 am   #52
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Default Re: Some BBC local radio MW Tx closures

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuvistor View Post
Hi Al,

I don’t know the answer but if the TX is too old to maintain it must be possible to build one with new tech, whether the BBC/Gov want to do that is another matter.
I doubt they would actually want to invest again but I'm positive there is a fix out there if they so wished.
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Old 13th Apr 2020, 3:07 pm   #53
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Default Re: Some BBC local radio MW Tx closures

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuvistor View Post
Two interesting articles about radio tele switching which some use 198Khz for transmission. Deadline was for March 2020, changed to March 2021 and could be 2022, a movable feast. One problem it the lack of replacement RTS meters and Smart Meters not being ready ....
The LW radio teleswitching technology is a hugely underused resource. I was initially under the impression it only served as a time reference to keep white meter clocks in sync, but there are actually tariffs which use it to turn on and off storage heating according to weather and generating forecasts.

This proven 'one to many' communication and control should provide valuable flexibility in an environment where electricity markets frequently pay out more for 'units not used' than 'units generated' and when technologies such as electrification of transport and heat offer more opportunities to shed non-time-critical load at times of peak demand (and price)

It seems a great shame that the technology was and is so underused. It's something that could be rolled out immediately with, eg electric vehicle charging, because it's not dependent on smart meter technology whose roll-out, functionality and reliability remain questionable.
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Old 15th Apr 2020, 5:24 pm   #54
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Default Re: Some BBC local radio MW Tx closures

Reading the part about "All content beong available over the internet" almost sounds like they are setting themselves up for a subscription only service. Users pays a monthly fee to access the BBC web portal.
We still have quite a few AM stations here in Sydney.
As I flick through the stations though, many of them are just the same station on a different wavelength.
As a kid watching British TV I never did understand the whole TV licence thing.
I suppose if they want people to pay for the content they just have to shut down all the free broadcasts eventually and move all radio and TV to internet based Pay Per View/Listen type technologies.
Really sad to think that you will be able to restore an old wireless but have to broadcast your own signal to test it with.
Just won't have the same feeling of satisfaction finding 3 or 4 local stations on a freshly restored set.
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Old 16th Mar 2021, 3:07 pm   #55
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Default Four more MW radio transmitter closures.

For listeners in the North
of England I think this is current news John
https://radiotoday.co.uk/2021/02/bau...-in-the-north/
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Old 16th Mar 2021, 4:29 pm   #56
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Default Re: Four more MW radio transmitter closures.

“We want to make sure that Greatest Hits Radio audiences can take advantage of the wide range of listening options available to them," says Group Managing Director Graham Bryce.

So they've reduced those listening options. Eh?
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Old 16th Mar 2021, 6:31 pm   #57
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Default Re: Four more MW radio transmitter closures.

Oh well, I won’t miss them! Not been able to get much apart from Absolute, talk sport, and 5 live for a while now. Plenty of free space for the pantry transmitter though!

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Old 16th Mar 2021, 7:11 pm   #58
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Default Re: Four more MW radio transmitter closures.

Just for interest I checked on the Argos web site to find out how many radios they have for sale with MW/LW. None with both wave bands and one with MW\FM, that was a pocket radio. This was out of 73 radios on their web site.
Not surprising that broadcasters are shutting down their MW stations if new radios with the facilities are not easily available. Appreciate there are lots of older AM sets about but with all the interference on the band they probably get little use by most.

Perhaps expect more closures in the future.
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Old 17th Mar 2021, 12:40 am   #59
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Default Re: Four more MW radio transmitter closures.

The future looks bleak for "Ashton Moss (East) MF", with only Asian Sound (80W ERP) to sustain it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashton...tting_stations
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Old 17th Mar 2021, 6:34 am   #60
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Default Re: Four more MW radio transmitter closures.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rambo1152 View Post
The future looks bleak for "Ashton Moss (East) MF", with only Asian Sound (80W ERP) to sustain it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashton...tting_stations
Thatís a lot of aerial for one small transmitter, must be making loss for Arqiva when Greatest hits shut down.

http://tx.mb21.co.uk/gallery/gallerypage.php?txid=1497
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